Refusing consent for the $7.5 million Mount Hot Pools redevelopment is a huge slap in the face for the ‘Crosby team' at Tauranga City Council, says Councillor Murray Guy.
Commissioner Greg Hill's decision stops the pools redevelopment and vindicates the former ‘Pick Six' team's opposition to council think-big projects, says Murray.
Mount Hot Pools from Mauao.
Placing the Hot Pools redevelopment alongside other failed council ventures like the $12 million memorial park walkway, the museum on the pier, the redevelopment of Coronation Pier – all opposed by the former Pick Six team.
'The last three years and the amount of ridicule that Catherine (Stewart), myself and Rick and others got when we chose to debate contrary to the Crosby team,” says Murray. 'What a turnaround. It will be interesting to see if we get flowers.”
The decision is a significant one, says Murray.
'A collection of lay people soundly defeated some of the biggest legal brains and resource consent brains with the support of Tauranga City Council staff members – and blew them to the weeds.
'That is a huge undertaking and success; the fact that it was soundly knocked back on evidence provided by the community – that's got to be a big tick for the RMA.”
Read more here about the end of the pools upgrade proposal.
26 comments
MOUNT HOT POOLS RMA HEARING
Posted on 23-03-2011 11:44 | By ROB PATERSON
MOUNT HOT POOLS RMA HEARING At the RMA Hearing in February, the applicant TCAL aka TCC produced the usual glitzy claptrap with no valid robust business case, mostly supposition. The bottom line was that ratepayers needed to front with $7.5 million to put this ‘nice to have' pipedream in place plus $½ million in interest a year. The project was to be on D.O.C. Conservation Land and is a Reserve. The Mount (Mauao) is an outstanding natural landscape. Clearly what came out of the evidence is the Wellness Centre is effectively divided off from the Mount Hot Salt Pools, in other words, a separate new self-contained commercial building which would be leased out to private enterprise to run. We all know what happened to Leisure Co. with the Baywave operations. The loss of 24 campsites will cost TCC around $200,000 p.a. for what is a passive investment and currently costs very little to administer so that is an immediate loss. In the case of the Mount Hot Pools, TCAL conceded these had not been adequately maintained for the last 10 years and the facility was in a run down state. Very telling submissions in opposition were made by TCC Councillor Catherine Stewart, prominent architect Gerry Hodgson, local identity Fred Greenhill and Messrs. Makgill / Hakiro (TCC Planners) along with many others, including me. Environmental traffic and parking issues were flagged as barriers. Mount Progressive Association did not support the project. The Tauranga public should be outraged that this project was even contemplated let alone have got this far, even more so had they heard the submissions presented in opposition at the Hearing. The bottom line was to be the creation of a new ‘Wellness' Centre, not a redevelopment of the Mount Hot Pools at all. Commissioner Greg Hill reached the correct decision by refusing the application in its entirety.
Pool Upgrade
Posted on 23-03-2011 11:45 | By tabatha
Unfortunately there is always a group of people who push for what they think is best. If we did not have people like this we would always be in a sleepy hollow. As long as when they get a knock back they come out smiling. Also in the political world there is always some against the ones who push an idea. It is a shame, but human nature I presume, when someone who opposes pushes the dagger in and twists it for their own ideas.
Pick Six lives?
Posted on 23-03-2011 12:32 | By al pillocksworth
If my memory is correct, Cr Murray Guy insisted, possibly on Sunlive, that Pick Six existed before the previous election but didn't exist during the last council term. That was certainly the line of Pick Sixer Bill Humphrey. Or was it just because of embarrassment over the drink driving conviction of one councillor elected on the Pick Six ticket?
Commom Sense
Posted on 23-03-2011 12:33 | By Jitter
Common sense prevails at last. When there are 22 objectors and only 2 supporters (plus some spendthrift councillors) then this madcap scheme must face defeat. What a great win for ratepayers. Unfortunately the cost of 3 TCC staff members working fulltime on this makes the win pretty costly. Great news anyway.
Rob
Posted on 23-03-2011 12:45 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
I have always been very suspicious of the RMA, however this result and the evidence supporting it have shown that there is justice for the city after all.
Murray Guy's short memory
Posted on 23-03-2011 13:02 | By al pillocksworth
Only last year Murray Guy is quoted on Sunlive 27 July 2010. Question: Is Murray Guy saying that Pick Six got elected then just disbanded? Cr Guy's answer: "That's exactly what I'm saying, have said consistently with a few choosing not to listen." Wonder how that relates to this story about Pick Sixes opposition? Maybe Murray didn't listen to what he himself said?
TCC/EBOP
Posted on 23-03-2011 13:25 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
bugger...so 3 less staff needed at TCC..the only Big project the council should be dealing with is their debt.Through your media could i please ask ebop how much they spent on Okawa bay Lake Rotoiti spreading zeolite to "prevent" the possibility of an algae bloom...something i believed to be a totally naturally occuring /temporary process that has been happening occasionally for the last 10,000 yrs and poses no threat to anyone or anything
Guy may gloat now but
Posted on 23-03-2011 13:39 | By JSmithington
Put aside the gloating of Crs Murray Guy and Catherine Stewart, engage your brains and think about what this actually means. The council runs pools at the Mount, Bayfair, Greerton and Otumoetai. Overall, they lose money and are subsidised by the ratepayer. It's not just the Mount hotpools that need doing up, it's Otumoetai as well. So here was a proposal that would attract tourists year round, a bit like Hamner Springs does. The local normal hot pool soaker entry fee was to be maintained. The figures were available to the public at an info center, and I think based on 30% occupancy to break even. The profits would then go into reducing the ratepayer subsidy. Ok, forget that now and whether the figures would work or not, because it's over. The reality is that Mount pools need more than a lick of paint (and even that would cost), so who's going to pay for it? Two choices, the swimmer or the ratepayer, as it certainly can't come from the high end tourist. I predict that either the ratepayer subsidy to pools in Tauranga will increase drastically or the entry price to the pools will increase drastically, just to maintain a slightly improved pool system. I predict that the Otumoetai Pool will have to close. But think of the extra greenspace. I'm sure that would please the commissioner and Cr Catherine Stewart. It's a jolly shame that a proposal that would have had real benefit for the community has been ditched. In Tauranga, Luddites rule.
Mt Hot Pools and Murray Guy
Posted on 23-03-2011 14:00 | By Aster
What price the much vaunted unity in the new Council now? Doesn't take long before self interest emerges ahead of what is good for the City. Roll on the next elections!
Stop spending what you don't have!
Posted on 23-03-2011 14:07 | By SpeakUp
@ Rob Paterson: The Tauranga public (at least the part that does think) IS outraged. Can't help if TCC is arrogant enough to not notice. @Tabatha: The sleepy hollow will morph into a debtors' prison. It's a shame, but human nature I presume, that people like you still think that the self-serving spendrift bureaucrats around Crosby have your ‘best' in mind. They don't give a damn that WE (and our children's children) pay dearly for THEIR psychopathic ideas of grandeur. @JSmithington: Just imagine for a moment these pool would run like a commercial enterprise and not a subsidized endless hole. See, simply not sustainable in the grand form TCC sees fit to implement. Just because the system put you in a position to spend OUR money for your pet project does not give you the moral right to spend other people's hard-earned money. In case you are oblivious to the fact: Money is increasingly hard to earn…unless you are one of the leeches. @ Murray Guy: Well done. Keep up the good work according to ratepayers' mandate. In short: pen-pushers, leeches of public money and bureaucrats busy creating their own importance and existence: leave Tauranga alone!
Dreamer
Posted on 23-03-2011 15:11 | By cinik
JSmithington you are a dreamer if you think the $8.5 million massage rooms were going to solve all the problems. The predicted increase in customers to break even was 205 people a day everyday of the year. Probably the same people who predicted the toll road would pay for itself, with no cost to the ratepayer - yeah right. The whole scam is is to keep the totally unecessary TCAL on the gravy train. Sack the lot of them and employ a manager at the hot pools. CCO is really Council Compensated Oldboys.
Reply to Cinik
Posted on 23-03-2011 15:34 | By JSmithington
I thought 30% occupancy was a reasonable figure to achieve. I remember the pools being much busier 5 years ago, but patronage has declined as they've got more in need of maintenance. Frankly I'm happy enough if the maintenance and basic upgrade is just added to admission prices and hope that Cr Catherine Stewart will organise this. Not sure how popular she will be in Otumoetai when the Otumoetai Pool either closes, increases its rates subsidy or increases user fees. That's still my prediction.
Pool Management
Posted on 23-03-2011 16:08 | By silent no more
It is all very well being negative and she said he said I told you so and I'm out to score points on this decision but the fact of the matter remains. Tauranga City Council has a 'Public Pool Network' that is ratepayer subsidised and I give them credit for considering other options to improve revenue, though do not believe the Council are the right people/organisation at times to operate some public/commercial operations. Councils need to ensure it meets it's core requirements prior to embarking on other ventures... once those have been meet then careful consideration could be made in to expansion of existing facilities with the appropriate research and public consultation. The 'Wellness Centre' was always going to be a hard to sell project no matter which point of view or side you take.
Otumoetai pool
Posted on 23-03-2011 16:40 | By tabatha
This pool is a bit of a funny situation, I believe it actually or use to, be owned by Otumoetai College. To users of the pool all they need to look ay is the end near the gully to see how many extra layers of concrete have been added over the years because the pool was slowly sinking. I wonder if someone who really knows could enlighten us who does own the pool now.
Keep it simple
Posted on 23-03-2011 17:05 | By cinik
It's a hole in the ground with water in it. It has a fence around it with one entrance. It has a shed to get changed in. Pool Management (not including the people who actually do the work at the pools) Cost is $750,000 last year. Admin $512K, Consultants $198K and Audit $37K. Interest paid to the council and TECT $332K. Administration services provided by the Council, $125K. It is a Council Compensates Oldboys. Over the top management and bureaucracy by the council as usual whether they are directly or indirectly involved makes no difference to the ratepayer, either way they are shafted.
By Concerned Ratepayer
Posted on 23-03-2011 17:46 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
J. Smithington:The Papamoa (largest suburb of Tauranga) residents were told that the City Council would not support the local pool they swim in, at Papamoa School, and it had to be taken over by the local swimming club and run as a business. Otumoetai, Greerton and the Memorial Pool should be taken over by the local communities and run as a business. The City Council should only be running Baywave and the Hot Pools, with some income from the Hot Pools subsidising part of the running costs of Baywave until a plan is worked out to make it pay its own way. Maybe a combination of advertising on the walls, slightly higher entrance fees and applying for annual grants from the Lottery Commission, Tect and other community organisations that are available to help.
congratulations Catherine
Posted on 23-03-2011 17:55 | By crissibee
It's been a long hard fight Catherine Stewart but "YOU DID IT" well done.
HOT POOLS
Posted on 23-03-2011 20:53 | By javago
Maybe S Crosby &D Stewart will start listening to the voters or resign
next election?
Posted on 23-03-2011 20:53 | By tmc
I'm glad I'm in the WBOP District Council.....can't believe the number of selfcentred mono so-called figures of authority you all voted in just last year....so how long do we have to wait to try and eject this lot again?
who new
Posted on 23-03-2011 22:54 | By Mr bay
who new that swimming pools could cause such passion, just wish we could see this sort of passion in other things.......keep trying TCC you will get it right soon.
Really
Posted on 23-03-2011 23:15 | By tibs
To JSmithington How many businesses do you know of break even at 30% capacity? I think the figure was 40% from memory but I doubt there are many businesses so well off as to break even at 40% capacity. If you have one, or know who does, please advise us or run a course as I'd love to know the secret. Never mind the gloating from the Pick Six crew, will this cleanse the conceit from the faces of others? Or can conceit be mistaken for egg?
Waiting for Rob Paterson & Cr Guy
Posted on 24-03-2011 09:14 | By al pillocksworth
There's some interesting bits in the commissioners decision which I've found on TCC website here. http://econtent.tauranga.govt.nz/data/planning/files/rc15356_decision.pdf Despite what Murray Guy says about defeating 'the biggest legal brains”, not one lawyer represented the council. Still waiting for Murray's reply to my earlier question about Pick Six? A matter of integrity and credibility. One lawyer did however appear against the development and won here. On looking at Summary of Submissions I read that Cr Catherine Stewart felt that the residents opposite would be adversely affected by increased noise levels by people, vehicles and air conditioning. Hello! Has she ever been to the Mount on any weekend, let alone weekday??? Why is this councillor sticking up for residents who themselves live in buildings much larger than the proposed pools, in my opinion destroying the environment? Still waiting for Rob Paterson's correction of his $200k campsite loss statement and why a Mr 'Greenhill” is a local identity?
jill parry
Posted on 24-03-2011 16:10 | By jill parry
Pools in limbo, no pools DUMPED.
DEAR PILLOCKS WORTH
Posted on 24-03-2011 23:41 | By THE PELICAN BRIEF
The lost camping grounds that would be wiped out are around $200,000 pa in revenue, that would be lost and so replaced by a large and expensive debt, interest, less income from the pools and a massive add on to the wages bill and so on.
COSTS SO FAR
Posted on 30-03-2011 02:09 | By The Master
Ratepayers have been 'MAULED' by a bill of some $1m in consultants that are recorded in the TCAL annual report to 30/6/2010, on top of that you have three staff full time since 2004 or so, that make $1.45m in wages (assuming average wage as per Bill F) who knows what other costs are around the place or since.
MORE LIKE $3M+
Posted on 31-03-2011 21:48 | By TERMITE
There would be all sorts fo costs paid to get this far, you just haev to apply the simple concept that lawyers use for billing out to unsuspecting customers, it is called "the inch method", in other words you measure how high the pile of paper is and then it is $10,000 each ...
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