Tauranga City Aquatics Limited is considering appealing the decision made by an independent commissioner to cease the project to develop the Mount hot pools.
This issue was discussed in confidential at a workshop meeting between Tauranga City Council and its pools operation company, Tauranga City Aquatics Ltd, on Thursday.
Councillor David Stewart says an appeal may be lodged just to keep the issue in the system.
The applicant, TCAL, has 15 working days in which to lodge an appeal against the independent commissioner's decision to stop the proposed $7.5 million expansion plan.
The decision was announced on SunLive on March 22, 14 working days ago.
TCAL board member and city councillor David Stewart says even if an appeal is lodged, it may be just to keep the door open.
'It may well be that we will lodge an appeal just to have a holding pattern if you like, while we work through some of he issues, see if its worthwhile pursuing it further,” says David.
'It's like any application you go through – sometimes you don't get consent the first time around, so you make a few adjustments, and the chances are that you can.
'It's just a matter of determining: is it worthwhile pursuing it and what would need to be done in order to be successful.
'Often these things involve mediation between the parties. There are points that the decision has picked up on, the parties get can together and try and work it out, see if there is some common ground to resolve it. It's just part of the process.”
In the decision stopping the development plan, independent commissioner Greg Hill found the non-complying development would have more than minor adverse effects and some significant adverse effects on the landscape, the area's visual amenity, the lack of open space, transportation and car parking that could not be avoided, remedied or mitigated. The development also did not provide for protection of Mauao.
TCAL still has some work to do before deciding whether the decision is appealable, says David Stewart.
'I think it just needs a bit of investigation into the points the commissioner picked up on and what could be done with those,” says David.
'If there is some room to move, what affect that would have on the business case. So there's a bit of work to be done to sort it out one way or the other.”
Tauranga City Aquatics Ltd, a council-owned company, wanted land use consent to take 24 camp sites from the Mount domain camp for the project to expand the hot pools area from about 3285sqm to about 5445sqm by about 2160sqm.
The 5.15ha of public land is a conservation zone within the Tauranga City Plan and is classified as a recreation reserve under the Reserves Act.
The Mount Hot Pools currently make about $500,000 a year, according to information in the decision. The profits are not used to maintain the run-down hot pools, but are diverted to bolster other TCAL pools at Greerton, Memorial Park and Otumoetai.



56 comments
DEAD DUCKS GALOUR
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:06 | By YOGI BEAR
Guess this is all part of the Council saving money, have already wasted millions so far on this far fetched scheme that does nto even add to the pools available (not that there is a need for any more based on the usage. Perhaps the director's should be considering personally shelling out some money back into COuncil to pay some of the massive bills so created for no apparent reason?
an appeal may be lodged just to keep the issue in the system
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:07 | By SpeakUp
Don't you have any shame? We don't need to ask about your integrity. When does the last rip-off artist in the Council comprehend: Get back to your job and stop ripping off the ratepayer with your irresponsible self-serving bureaucratic machinery. Tauranga residents have to service HALF A BILLION DOLLAR debt! Debt incurred for Council Pet Projects. WE DON'T WANT you wasting Council time with crony business anymore!!! WE ARE WATCHING YOU!!! Get back to core business OR GET OUT !!!
Resign!
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:11 | By Writerman
Time for David Stewart and the rest of the directors of this company that is owned by you and me, (the ratepayers), resigned. They have already wasted enough money charging ahead irresponsibly with something they had no consent for. The last thing we need is for them to waste evn more of OUR money. It's far too easy for public servants and others who get their snout into the public trough to spend ratepayers money on their own pet projects.
David Pays
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:24 | By cinik
You want to appeal use your money not ours. As far wanting the board to resign, they should be prosecuted. TCAL spend $700K on themselves and $200K on R&M on the pools - criminal. Spend $900K on R&M and get rid of TCAL absolute no brainer. We would have the best pools in the country.
Not confidential, just told no one!
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:33 | By Murray.Guy
The workshop refereed to was held in public, open to anyone, media included - I suspect we may have chosen not to tell anyone. At the conclusion of the workshop a 'confidential portion' was held, specifically to be made aware of a 'legal opinion' received in regard the likelihood of success should an appeal we lodged. As a submitter against the proposed development, Cr. Catherine Stewart was required to leave the Chambers. The $500,000 profit referred to is up for debate as it has become apparent that the facility has not been maintained adequately, costing in excess of $2 million to bring up to spec with a possible 7 month closure!
Time for Pools to think!
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:34 | By tabatha
It is time that our City Council and its Ad Hoc bodies stopped and consulted with all Ratepayers. There will be some for this development but from the tone of letters seen in many publications a lot have had enough. No business spends more money and more money without putting its back to the wall. We have a great mix of council members but they need to stop and think who put them there. They are meant to represent the people of the City, not themselves. Private agendas should be declared and we the citizens of Tauranga say yes or no. If the it is a close no or yes think carefully before proceeding. Like crossing the road look right left and then right again before crossing. We need a period of minimal spending.
NAILED BY THE COMMISSIONER
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:40 | By YOGI BEAR
When does the obvious sink in, Council employed the Commissioner to decide what they wanted, he decided not to which is rather amazing, someone at Council must have forgotten to give him the 'PEP-TALK" before the the hearing started then failed to issue the required ear muffs.
BENT HATS AT ROTORUA AIRPORT
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:44 | By TERMITE
All looks the same to me, the black oozing mess at Roturua airport has travelled down the Katuna River and has arrived in the Bay, looks like the "bent hat" must have floated out of Rotorua and multiplied upon its escape. David clearly has got a new hat like the Mayors.
Question is
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:54 | By cinik
How can someone who is representing the ratepayers interests ignore and go against the wishes of the majority of ratepayers time and time again? How many roads must he walk down before he realizes he is out of touch with reality and should resign?
Hand in hand / Gland in gland
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:57 | By Hebegeebies
Say whats this then.TCC Deputy Mayor Stewart must resign as a director of TCAL immediately. He should never have been on the TCAL board ever as he has all sorts of conflicts of interest .Recent Sunlive opinion poll on MOUNT HOTPOOLS confirms 85% of public against this crap.While he is at Mr Stewart can resign from Council too.The TCC appointed RMA Commissioner refused the POOLS application entirely now TCC through its toady CCO viz TCAL looks to appeal its own decision -thats got the rat up the drainpipe look about it.What do the rest of you readers think about all this.
Hot pool appeal
Posted on 08-04-2011 11:59 | By tia
Good on TCHL for condering an appeal. I hope it succeeds. Well odne Cr David Stewart, someone with foresight to get away from the $10 Tauranga image
MURRAY'S MUCK UP
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:00 | By TERMITE
So if it had to claose for 7 months to "repair" then best get on with it rather that waste $2m on an appeal that is doomed, better spend it on something useful and upgrade etc.
Greg Hill for CEO
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:04 | By cinik
Council go on holiday for 3 years and leave Mr Hill to it.
MURRAY - EXIT LEFT
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:04 | By THE PELICAN BRIEF
Don't understand why Cr Cath had to exit the closed meeting when Cr David stayed behind and in the meeting when he was the director of the applicant. Sounds liek two sets of rules here. TCAL decides on an appeal and COuncil willpay for both sides and the Enviroment Court hearing ... sounds like many millions still to be spent for what ?
Yes tia
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:06 | By cinik
and you will keep your job at TCAL
The Only Issus is
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:10 | By Tony
We as ratepayers 'Dont want it" So stop spending money on it .Are TCC deaf or stupid ? If the Ratepayers dont want it it should happen , Why do these people think they have the right to just ignore what people wont , If the Rate payer had been lisented to over the last 10 years the City wouldnt be broke ,
FINGER LICKIN GOOD
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:13 | By TERMITE
TAI will get a pay rise for that, but nothing useful will have happened.
@ Murray Guy
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:14 | By SpeakUp
"...I suspect we may have chosen not to tell anyone..." Are you suicidal? Career-wise I mean? The Council ought to be T-R-A-N-S-P-A-R-E-N-T and democratic! Sad that we have to spell it out. Other things cannot be spelled out here because they wouldn't be published. One thing however should be unmistaken: The wasteful, petty, useless, frivolous, corrupt, self-serving, time-wasting, resource-killing and expensive manner with which Council engineers its own existence WILL END! Voters WILL wake up to the biggest abuse and con of public funds in Tauranga's history. Too late for them, but not too late for you.
Whats it all about ALFIE do you feel LUCKY
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:14 | By Hebegeebies
murray guy If its is going to take six months to refurbish the existing MOUNT POOLS get on with the work because no matter what happens this will always have to be done it just get works.Problem has arisen because of TCAL failure to maintain the pools over last 5years and TCALs prediliction with a new gobstopping Wellness Massage Rooms fantasy-check out the Matua blog
All care no responsibility
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:26 | By bigted
Tender the Hot Pool "business" out. Then we'd see a different attitude from the fat cats.
Away with the fairies
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:35 | By claypole
The arrogance of council, the board of TCAL including Councillor Stewart and CEO Tania Delahunty. The MAJORITY of the local population do not want this development, so stop wasting energy and our money whilst you deliberate further over a latte in executive board meetings. Give each other a little pat on the back for letting this project get so far and move on before the coffee gets cold!
Two Short Planks
Posted on 08-04-2011 12:58 | By RawPrawn
" independent commissioner Greg Hill found the non-complying development would have more than minor adverse effects and some significant adverse effects on the landscape, the area's visual amenity, the lack of open space, transportation and car parking that could not be avoided, remedied or mitigated." What part of that is so hard for Councillor Stewart to understand? Where is there likely to be 'some room to move'? Methinks someone sees his name on a brass plate.....
Run them out of town
Posted on 08-04-2011 13:19 | By Hebegeebies
On reflection maybe MOUNT HOTPOOLS is the last straw and Tauranga citizens need not persevere with these TCC buffoons any longer.Who was the person organising the TCC Council Watchers Ratepayers Monitoring Group.Get it up and running now arrange a Petition to the Minister of Local Government to appoint a Commissioner to run Tauranga for the next 2 1/2 years to sort the place out. Only then will we get Tauranga back on track and save $millions.Plenty of civil protest will get the job done if we all show the will & have a little energy to do so.Apathy won't work.
Reply to - Hebegeebies
Posted on 08-04-2011 13:50 | By Lostzone
Sun Live have my contact details. Similar issues are happening in Rotorua. Have today been talking with a few that are interested in setting up "Citizens Monitoring Council Rotorua" I do not believe that we need a commissioner. I still have confidence that we will be listened to. WHY! Because as we unite and talk as one body/group 'the power trippers' will listen and take note. They are not stupid. However they are very needy of 'controlling' for their own agendas, in my opinion. Great to see soo much feed back on TCC matters. "Citizens Monitoring Council" N Barker
Murray Guy suicidal
Posted on 08-04-2011 14:42 | By Murray.Guy
SpeakUp says in reference to my openness, "Are you suicidal? Career-wise I mean?" When I wrote 'WE' (as in TCC)chose not to tell anyone, that reflects my belief that although I do not support selective transperance, I am part of TCC. I believe my use of Facebook, Sunlive, YOUTUBE and the like, clearly demonstrates my be;lief in the communities right to know where TCC stands on issues, where I, as an elected member stand on issues. Too many say too little, reliant on a big election budget and unsubstantiated spin. Suicidal, perhaps - passionate about the 'application of democracy', YES!
Rob
Posted on 08-04-2011 15:19 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
Is there not any lawyer out there who can bring a case against those responsible for this continued neglect of their masters (us ratepayers) It has been so obvious throughout this whole debacle that the majority did not/does not want this journey into fantasy land to continue - close down your grandiose ideas and get back to your knitting or get out!
RAW PAWN ?
Posted on 08-04-2011 16:24 | By Vomit
What use are "two planks" except to get the clap ... surely that is a waste of two perfectly good planks, just push them over the side and sail off into the sunset. No parties, not nothing just drop and leave.
MURRAY DECIDES WHAT IS A SECRET
Posted on 08-04-2011 17:22 | By Vomit
Seems interesting that one says that O-P-E-N-N-E-S-S ... T-R-A-N-S-P-A-R-E-N-T are nice and wonderful and "I am so good and I am such a believer blah blah blah ... cut to it Murray you more TRANSPARENT than you realise, only posting up bit, a selection as and when you want to, what it actually means that ALL is ion the table ALL of the time for EVERTHING and from the START ... no matter what who or when! Anything else you just don't measure up to it.
Murray
Posted on 08-04-2011 17:29 | By Tony
Well sdaid Murray VERY well said
deaf AND stupid
Posted on 08-04-2011 21:35 | By reeceracer
I can't believe I'm reading this. What is WRONG with these people!! WE DON'T WANT A "WELLNESS CENTRE"!! Get rid of these clowns and put there salaries into maintainance. Somebody sure want's his name on a brass plaque alright.....it should be on a one way ticket to Afghanistan. I have never commented on any website before but this has stirred my pot big time. Unbelievable.
LAP DOG
Posted on 08-04-2011 23:01 | By waiknot
So David did you get a nice wee pat on the back from Mayor Crosby for this? Did he promise you another term as deputy mayor? You are as pathetic as you appeared at the pre election meeting I attended, shame the media weren't there to report on it so the voters could make an informed vote.
DREAM MERCHANTS
Posted on 09-04-2011 09:38 | By TERMITE
The Mt Hot Pool does not make $500,000 a year? Look at it ... "Profit" so that is after wages of say 15 x $70k pa (average as per Huff-a-low Bill) = $1.05m, power repairs, and other costs say another $500k pa = Sales made of $2.05m then add GST $2.36m. Now at $6 a visit means 1081 people "A DAY" go, that is 90 people a hour enter and pay. SORRY FOLKS THIS DOES NOT STACK UP! The amounts quoted are garbage on this one. Even at $500,000 sales pa is 229 a day EVERY day of the year. What is collected at teh gate is not a "profit" it is the "sales" then you pay costs out of it, with the staff levels power costs and repairs there can not be a profit in it anywhere. All sounds like the submission to Hill at the hearing was all massively overstated for "enhancement", chest puffing and all that.
Directors could well have personal liability
Posted on 09-04-2011 09:43 | By Hebegeebies
rob ~~~~ yes rest assured monitoring the actions of the directors of any Tauranga City Council Closely Controlled Organisation (CCO) will be looked at in detail. If there is any suggestion of wrong doing or any failure to properly fullfil their duties as Company directors which are very strict and onerous then watch out.That is why the immediate appointment of a Local Govt Commissioner to run TCC would be very helpful and would cut to the core real quick.Directors of CCOs need not think any indemnities against liability given by TCC will protect their butts. Sorry to say that will not be the case.
DIRECTOR'S ARE LIABLE
Posted on 09-04-2011 10:07 | By Vomit
TCAL is trading "while insolvent" and always has, just becasue TCC throws money at TCAL at will only proves the point. That means even the contractor not paid a few years ago should be paid by the Director personally on a JOINT & SEVERAL BASIS. RECOOMENATION: RESIGN FORTHWITH, however running away does not mean the creditors will not be able to catch you, I am sure the the GRIM REAPY will track you down where ever rock you try to hide under!
DIRECTOR's INSURANCE EX TCC
Posted on 09-04-2011 10:53 | By WARTS N ALL
Guaranteed that to continue trading while insolvent is a "negligent act" according to the Companies Act, that means the extensive insurance coverage paid for by TCC for all and sundry will not protect any Director, deemed Director or senior officers of TCAL. TCVL in the in same boat.
After Tax Loss 4.2 mill
Posted on 09-04-2011 11:13 | By cinik
http://www.tcal.co.nz/About+TCAL/Finance.html Read it and weep. Termite it may help you with your figures.
What we need.....Wont Happen
Posted on 09-04-2011 12:37 | By Tony
Is for a good Lawyer to just suggest to TCC that this is / maybe / could be Illegle and suggest who could be liable ...But it wont happen They are all members of the same club eh
Indecent Haste
Posted on 09-04-2011 13:12 | By Scambuster
STOP PRESS : As Council had already predetermined the course of action before Councillors last meeting with TCAL it is of concern TCC has now promptly "arranged" for TCAL to file an appeal of the Independent Hearing Commissioner's decision with The Environment Court.The appeal was filed yesterday the 8th April 2011.With almost 85% of Tauranga citizens against the Hotpools Redevelopment the time has come as many suggest to have this Council removed from office forthwith.
HURRAH THE HOBBITS HAVE APPEALED
Posted on 09-04-2011 15:01 | By Hebegeebies
Murray Guy ; The workshop meeting according to you was not secret but no one knows about it. When things get interesting everyone including poor CR.Cath get get turfed out while CR. Dave wearing 2 hats one for TCC and one as the director (that shouldn't be) of TCAL is permitted to stay and warm his seat as usual. Presumably all this is done along with TCAL reps.who were probably in on the confidential claptrap and secret 5 stuff.CR. GUY do you support this hidden agenda way of doing COUNCIL business?
leave it
Posted on 09-04-2011 21:11 | By Capt_Kaveman
be ya greedy twits Tauranga City Aquatics Limited had it all gifted to them anyhow kick them out and bring it bk to the council or ratepayers to run it the hot pools r fine as they are TCC cannot afford it full stop-
Marching to a different tune
Posted on 10-04-2011 10:40 | By cinik
The Ministry of Silly Walks AKA the TCC is so out of step with public opinion that I wonder how they were voted in to office in the first place. Then I remembered I voted for most of them, so I apologise to readers for my mistake and I will never vote for them again. If Egypt can change their oppressive regime then surely Tauranga can as well. We just need someone to tell us how!
Should have listerned to Bill English
Posted on 10-04-2011 11:40 | By cinik
Asked how Auckland ratepayers could make sure their flash new council doesn't go spending too much on big projects, English replies, "Don't elect a mayor who is nuts for a start." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/fran-osullivan/news/article.cfm?a_id=13&objectid=10665240
.
Posted on 10-04-2011 12:46 | By SpeakUp
Well, cinik (and others), you have to create a meme (i.e. "this Council has to be demoted") and then run with it. You have to channel the popular outcry into ACTION. Where is Council Watchers Ratepayers Monitoring Group? Are they still alive? Look at how it's done in Egypt: every Saturday people gathered on the main square to demonstrate. Yes, I know, the sheeple here are still too fat and content with the BS metered out to them. But that doesn't mean that public opinion cannot be channelled. Why not having a demonstration every Friday at noon in front of the Council. First there might be only a few, but they will motivate more and maybe, maybe the sheeple begin to having had enough of being shorn by these self-seeking corrupt bureaucrat parasites.
MASTER SHEARER BILL
Posted on 11-04-2011 17:51 | By TERMITE
Did anyone tell Bill that the idea is to trim off the wool off the 'SHEOPLE'. You not meant to cut it to the bone everytime in fact any of the time, only take what you need not what you want, like all of it.
GET RID OF THIS LOT
Posted on 11-04-2011 18:39 | By Hebegeebies
Last Thursday all Mount Hotpools with the exception of the main active pool were closed off until at least 6pm.Yesterday Sunday 10th April the whole pool complex closed until mid afternoon.There have been several other closeouts over the past month and no reasons are ever given.You would have to ask is this TCVL OUTFIT capable of running any aquatics operation.
Confidential versus public
Posted on 12-04-2011 07:39 | By Murray.Guy
It's my belief that any meeting, discussion or activity that involves elected members and contributes to a democratic decision making outcome must be in the public arena, at the least, with media advised. Where practical, meaningful records of such processes should be available. All workshops and forums should be recorded. Where there are commercially sensitive components and or matters of privacy for individuals, these should separated out and kept in confidential. For example, yesterday morning and part of the afternoon was spent debating in confidential whether or not the 'glass house on a barge' should be allowed to remain in it's present position and the future direction for the proposed Coronation Pier development. 90% of the discussion did not qualify as confidential but members present by majority refused to release the non-confidential aspects, who voted for what, with what rational. I sense members were more concerned about keeping the community in the dark about their own contribution.
HIDING the TRUTH
Posted on 12-04-2011 08:52 | By Hebegeebies
CR Guy ...... of course most TCC Councillors want to keep the Glass Cage and CORONATION PIER secrets out of the limelight and treat the Tauranga community as mushrooms.Its just a bloody rort.TCC do not want people to know about the tens of thousands of dollars being spent by Council on berth charges at last count $60 - 70 thousand to hold the dilapidated Scapens barge at the Bridge moorings.Nor do TCC want to disclose details of any dealings with developers on the CORONATION PIER DEVELOPMENT.
Suggestions
Posted on 12-04-2011 12:26 | By SpeakUp
For the Sun: Could Council meetings(debates)(WBoP Regional and Tauranga, maybe even EBoP) please be published? It would do a great service to the community while at the same time garner readership. For Mr. Guy: "...commercially sensitive components..." that reads for us CORRUPTION, CRONYISM, HIDDEN AGENDAS. And we want to know WHO voted against transparency and our democratic right. Please provide their names.
One more thing...
Posted on 12-04-2011 12:33 | By SpeakUp
Could the Sun please make access available to bygone pages, which have received or are still receiving comments and dialogue? A bit like 'Editor's picks' or 'Related articles' i.e. 'In the public eye'. And again, a big 'Thank you' to the Sun Live. You have ushered in a new era of ratepayers' participation.
CORONATION PIER AND CARPARKS ...
Posted on 14-04-2011 04:19 | By WOMBLE
Can't see the point of changing anything from the railway line onwards, until the railway line goes west. Even then it would seem a complete waste of money to spend all that money on the waterfront project. All they need to do is bring in sand so as we all can build sand castles.
SAND CASTLES
Posted on 14-04-2011 14:50 | By GROMIT
Yes and TCC staff can teach you how to do that because they went to LA to learn the 'tricks of the trade'.
WHAT PROFIT
Posted on 14-04-2011 14:52 | By GROMIT
When millions are paid into TCAL annually how can there be a profit anywhere, in fact that is a complete dream like notion of filtered and massaged data that is so obscure that even a rubber stamp would not hide what it really is.
BILLABONG
Posted on 14-04-2011 15:02 | By BUSHWACKER
Why don't ya all just come out to my place, help chase a few crocs out of the waterhole and they stay as long as you like. No bills, no entry fees and all natural. Can't figure all this towny stuff going on here.
AT BUSWACKER
Posted on 25-04-2011 10:52 | By YABBA DABBA DO
Good answer, most of the time there would only be 2-5 paying customers in there, usually more staff that payers. So move them all out to a watering hole and save a bundle. We could even divert one empty bus to take all there and back and still be better off for it.
MAKE ABOUT $500,000 A YEAR
Posted on 26-04-2011 16:10 | By SLIPPERY SALAMI
Impossible, 'make' means profit TCC can not make a profit even if they tried and knew how, there is no chance of that with any pool anywhere in NZ. Even $500,000 of sales per annum is 229 people a day into the place, if they stay for say 2 hours each that means on average there is 38 paying customers on average 365 days a year 12 hours a day, does not happen!
LESSON ON LOSSES
Posted on 27-04-2011 21:22 | By WARTS N ALL
STOP SPENDING!
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