Tauranga City Aquatics Ltd's decision to appeal the Mount Hot Pools decision is a holding action while options are explored, says TCAL chairman Warren Banks.
'We just need to say ‘Hey, lets get some breathing space and have a look at all the options',” says Warren.
Proposed Mount Hot Pools expansion.
The appeal is against the hearing commissioner's decision to refuse resource consent to the $7.5 million hot pools expansion project.
Warren says whether or not TCAL continues to press for the redevelopment in its entirety, there is still considerable work that needs to be done at the hot pools.
For some years, hot pools profits have been siphoned off to support other pools in the network, but Warren says the hot pools need more maintenance.
'There has been ongoing maintenance, but as things go on it comes to a point where you have to make some serious investment back into it,” says Warren.
Regulations have changed since the pools' last redevelopment in the late 1980s.
Tauranga City Council took over the pools' operation in 1989 and handed them over to TCAL in 2005.
Regulations have changed and many aspects of the pools no longer meet requirements, says Warren.
There is no disabled access to all pools as required and the discharge into Pilot Bay is too hot.
There are also more filtering and water quality requirements for the spa pools, all of which have been put off, because they were to have been incorporated in the new plant room planned as part of the upgrade and expansion.
TCAL will also be coming back to the city council with a range of other options for the pools' future.
'Last week we had a workshop with the council and discussed the various choices,” says Warren.
'It was clear from that meeting that doing nothing was not an option.
'The pools are slowly but surely declining.
'People are visiting less and less and income is falling.
'The facility requires refurbishment regardless of what may be decided in the future.”
He expects the first step will be arranging mediation with the successful objectors.
'We think there are some valid points in the decision, and we'll have to have a rethink on some of those,” says Warren.
'Equally, there are some aspects we disagree with – the purpose of the appeal is to clarify these issues.”
38 comments
For Clarity Only I Hope
Posted on 14-04-2011 15:52 | By tabatha
The thought of another $7.5 million of rate payers money being used (even a loan) is horrific at this time. I agree the pools need to be attractive but the cost is far too high. The money that has to be spent before even thinking about what is going to be done seems to out of control. TCC need to think about the voters who put them in not the glory they think they will get for spending heaps of other peoples money.
IT MAKES ME SICK
Posted on 14-04-2011 15:58 | By Vomit
That they have just decided to lodge an appeal, talk about pig headed and all that when do these guys take a hint. The after the decision is made they say 'next step is to arrrange mediation ...'. Wise old commissioner Greg Hill has made the decision already, that makes it done and dusted already. Council even hand picked him to do the job, bet he never gets another job again, may as well retire now.
Deaf or stupid?
Posted on 14-04-2011 16:13 | By Writerman
Is Warren Banks deaf or just stupid? Has he not read what was on this site a couple of days ago or listened to all the rest of the responses from the ratepayers? He is another who should look for another job - preferably one where WE are not funding his lifestyle. Talk about out of touch; he should be kicked into touch immediately for wantonly attempting to waste yet more ratepayer dollars when it is clear the ratepayers want him to pull his head in.
Deaf, dumb and stupid
Posted on 14-04-2011 16:41 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
was it 80%? have said no and yet they still push on. Refurbish the pools -pay the subbies this time - and get over it.
Upgrade the pools
Posted on 14-04-2011 17:11 | By bigted
Provided that the ratepayer gets free entry upon sight of their rate demand.
Mixed feelings
Posted on 14-04-2011 18:38 | By JSmithington
Probably the same people screaming about this appeal of the decision, would have been all for an appeal if their side hadn't won. But I'm not sure about the costs of all this legal stuff or the possibility of refurbished pools making a profit instead of a loss. Perhaps it would be better to do the smaller upgrade rather than the big scheme. Forget the extra tourist spending and possibility of a profit and just add the costs of a smaller revamp to the admission fees. Most important, keep rates out of it.
money money money
Posted on 15-04-2011 00:13 | By grahamwood
our rates bills are out of control...way way ahead of inflation rate! Its irresponsible to even think of spending this sort of money right now.
An option that still requires an RMA Consent process
Posted on 15-04-2011 10:56 | By Murray.Guy
JSmithington writes, "...Perhaps it would be better to do the smaller upgrade rather than the big scheme." This is one of the options and why the appeal is to proceed. A consent is required for the essential upgrade components. The consent recently rejected can be modified to avoid starting all over.
Wants to be included with the other cretans now
Posted on 15-04-2011 11:35 | By Hebegeebies
Reading between the lines Councillor Murray Guy now seems to be supporting some sort of Mount Hotpools upgrade over and above refurbishment of the existing Hotpools.Why else would he be trying to justify the crazy RMA appeal rationale ??
What part of NO don't they understand??
Posted on 15-04-2011 12:48 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
For heavens sake Council and TCAL, get into the real world for just this once! The public has said NO. The Commissioner has said NO. The ratepayers have said NO,NO,NO. Yet you think it's a good idea to spend up to ANOTHER 1Million $ that we can't afford?? Roll on the next elections, we WILL remember.
Hebegeebies, a confused sole
Posted on 15-04-2011 12:57 | By Murray.Guy
A resource consent is required to carry out essential and overdue maintenance. I do not, will never, support the further erosion of Mount Maunganui peninsula or the mountain itself. I do not believe the provision of massage facilities are a function of TCC ratepayers. I do not have confidence in the business case, anymore than I do for Route K, Art Gallery, Baypark, Willow St bus depot, etc. Which part of that is difficult to understand?
Who will pay for the basic upgrade then?
Posted on 15-04-2011 13:53 | By JSmithington
Now that the more commercial option looks like it won't happen, how will the more basic but still expensive painting, upgrade filtration stuff and disable access get paid for? Will it be increased charges to swimmers or will rates be used to prop the councils pools up?
Stand up and be counted
Posted on 15-04-2011 14:31 | By Hebegeebies
Councillor Murray Guy ~ nothing is difficult to understand about the failng schemes you refer to & if you are so vehement in your opposition to them speak out at every opportunity, show some bottle and don't keep pussyfooting around. The RMA Consents you state are required for the existing Hotpools just ask your mates and their lackies why they were not applied for at the same time as the RMA application for the WELLNESS CENTRE redevelopment.Idiocy and overconfidence would be most likely explanations that spring to mind.NO ONE would have opposed these and the public would have given full support to this course of action.Would not be holding my breath now however as the RMA position is beginning to have the same stench that the tunnelled visioned Southern Wastewater Pipeline consents now have.People are really pissed off with TCC over the Hotpools charade and Councillors and TCAL reps that keep promoting it will get the DCM treatment.
Posted on 15-04-2011 14:50 | By methinks
God damn, if a resource consent is needed for a disabled access - go get it, it should be quick and cheap!! Do the maintenance and forget the rest - as the people that voted you into your positions are now demanding!! Be the bigger party here TCAL (if your personalities will let you), build a bridge, move forward. TCC manup - grow a backbone! All you are doing is spending ratepayer money and believe me when it comes to election time you will find out just how much your 'bosses' disagreeded with your work ethics. Let the damned egos go, there is no need to have to have the last word, that's for the playground. You lot are committing political suicide - go hard!!!
Common sense
Posted on 15-04-2011 16:02 | By The author of this comment has been removed.
Tauranga rates and level of debt are out of control - the rates increases need to be reduced. Only do the required maintenance out of Hot Pools income and make the other pools support themselves like the Papamoa Pool has to do.
MURRY ON THE KUMARA
Posted on 15-04-2011 17:47 | By WARTS N ALL
I can not believe this lot, HEEBEEGEEBEES is on the money.
MURRAY TALKS ... YEAH RIGHT!
Posted on 15-04-2011 17:51 | By Vomit
At a meeting arranged TCC consults (yet more) arranged to 'try and talk around the objectors' was nothing more than "be reasonable and do it my way", what a total breech of a proper review and judical system. Stand up Murray and be counted, at least Catherine did.
Riding Roughshod with our $7.5m
Posted on 16-04-2011 12:50 | By MINDER
The valid points in the HILL decision are those that found against TCAL & TCC.Keep having the secret Council and TCAL discussions because when the story comes out it always makes you look like the turkeys you are and the public already treat you as laughing stocks as it is.We should all keep in mind that Mayor Crosby Deputy Mayor Stewart & CRS Molloy Christiansen Faulkner Moultrie & Baldock all fully support the Mount Hotpools Redevelopment egged on by Banks and Delahunty of Tauranga City Aquatics.
@ MINDER
Posted on 17-04-2011 10:16 | By WARTS N ALL
Mate you have not got a handle on that one as yet, they have already spent $2.5-3.0m odd on consultants and all that, the normal thing is that: consultants and the officials employed, all costs related to them all take out about 50% of whatever TCC thinks it is going to cost. BUT because now that they are unhappy about the decision they are now changing the plans, rewrite the whole thing, try to arm twist the objectors then head off to the Environment Court for a white wash event. The cost to TCC will be: $3.0m blown already, likely anoher2-3.0m on the revamped plans and through to the appeal, then the remaining $3.75m of actual overpriced work to do will be increased perhaps 10-30%. That makes an all up new debt to TCC of about $11m odd, that will be what they tell us and that will be an understatement. In reality the Hot Pools will be doomed to a fate of loosing money for ever as there is no way they can even collect a part of that $$$ in at the gate before ANY COSTS and certainly before any administration overhead that will of course be MASSIVE.
BILL GOT IT RIGHT?
Posted on 19-04-2011 12:24 | By WOMBLE
"Anything Council do costs three times anyone else" and of what it should cost. I would suspect that Bill has got that wrong as well as it is more like 4-5 times as much looking at the Hot Pools. What will be a $2-2.5m job is gunna cost about $11m and likely more.
They say you go blind
Posted on 20-04-2011 22:28 | By Hebegeebies
I doubt $2 mill. will cover it .What a complete waste of time and money the appeal can only be for what the TCAL clowns applied for originally so TCC don't waste everyone's time and space.I recently thought I had my TCC problems sorted but the germs have resurfaced and are in a feeding mode again.Looks like another spanking is required what else are massage rooms for.
IT MAKES ME SICK
Posted on 22-04-2011 12:35 | By Vomit
That so much is spent and continues to be spent and what is there to see for all of it? They spend even more on hte "wants" rather than "needs" yet again.
CLARIFY WHAT?
Posted on 23-04-2011 08:54 | By YOGI BEAR
The plan was a complete reject (yes HEBEGEEBIES you have it right), any appeal must be on the initial application not some revamped trumped up new window dressing scheme of a plan to try and sneak it under the radar. The process of public notified like this one is so that "JOE PUBLIC" can see what hair brain schemes have been dreamed up and then are seeking to be real. The process allows all to have a say and hopefully a good decision will follow. This hearing result is a milestone event as few are rejected. The clarification needed by TCC is more aptly described as "WE DID NOT SEE THAT COMING" Like that is because a choice was made to do it regardless of public opposition.
@ WARTS N ALL
Posted on 24-04-2011 10:20 | By BUSH WACKER
All these consultants, others and Council staff running around for years and years 'thinking' about shuffling paper and other meaningless tasks all seems to be completely pointless. Millions are spent annually on all manner of 'PROJECTS'. That rates money is spent on whatever before anyone has any idea of the hairy brain schemes dreamed up. This is 'cart before the horse' stuff.
NEW OR AN APPEAL?
Posted on 24-04-2011 10:49 | By MISS ADVENTURE
If tyhe plans are being 'jiggled' then that is a NEW APPLICATION which means start again, that means the millions spent already flushed down the pipe ... To amend the plans menas yet another feeding frenzy for the raft of consultants and so on, but that is not an 'APPEAL' it is 'START AGAIN' from scratch!
Project essential to Tauranga
Posted on 24-04-2011 10:56 | By THOMAS
The redevelopment will provide a wonderful business enterprise for the citizens of Tauranga, the facilities are in need of upgrading to world class standards and will set a bench mark for other similar facilties that the city needs.
PARTY POLITICAL BROADCAST
Posted on 24-04-2011 20:39 | By TERMINATOR
Looks to me like THOMAS has been smoked out of a pigeon hole somewhere, there is no way TCC should think about setting up this monstorous mess nevermind repeating it. All sounds like a Councillor smoking off somewhere with some hair brain scheme in tow living in a dream world.
GET COUNCIL OUT OF BUSINESS
Posted on 25-04-2011 10:49 | By YABBA DABBA DO
The last thing TCC should be doing is setting up a business, it is like a MIDAS touch where CUSTARD is what you get not GOLD! The colour is somewhere near but that is the end of the good news on that. Bill has even confirmed that TCC can't do anything economically, that anything they do costs three times a privately operated outfit. Therefore the only conclusion is: - LOSSES or MORE LOSSES for ratepayers to pay.
CLARITY ?
Posted on 26-04-2011 09:06 | By WARTS N ALL
Sounds like wine, in that case clear menas good. However here it is exactly the opposite to that, it could not be worse, in reality the only thing needing "clarity" is why was the tender issued and accepted before the consent had been obtained, is that not a little bit arrogant somewhere ... maybe everywhere?
CLARIFY WHAT ?
Posted on 26-04-2011 16:06 | By SLIPPERY SALAMI
The Commissioners decision was simple, clear and absolute, what possible question could remain? I only know of one ... 'I don't want to' like here come the toys flying out of the cot at 90 miles an hour!
IT IS CLEAR
Posted on 30-04-2011 13:26 | By Vomit
More consultants spend time and money on what has already been decided, move on, move over. Stop this madness and rort of ratepayers.
Hot pools and profits
Posted on 03-05-2011 17:45 | By Roadkill
There can not be any profit there as the whole of the pools all make losses and they are really big.
BLOWING HOT AIR
Posted on 03-05-2011 18:57 | By WOMBLE
Hot water as well, when does it end.
CONSENT APPLICATION BY TCAL
Posted on 04-05-2011 02:27 | By MISS ADVENTURE
Looking at it is quite amazing, the application claims that the Mt Hot Pools "make $500,000" that is used elsewhere in teh network. Of course that means that teh profits of one are used to reduce the losses elsewhere. However there is a problem with that which stands out and just begs the quesiton. That being, As teh pools totoal sales is about $900,000 a year then it amazes me that the Hot pool alone makes a profit of $500,000? That all looks like some pretty smart book worm paper shuffling going on there to create that picture for all to read.
HOT POOLS SALES ARE
Posted on 04-05-2011 18:02 | By WORMTONGUE
About $300,000 a year is he sales there, that is a lot lower that was included in the consent applicaiton for Hot Pools, someone is doing a little to much of a BS story on this one for sure to say that there is a profit of $500,000 that is just not possible.
@ WORM TONGUE
Posted on 05-05-2011 08:37 | By WOMBLE
Easy as mate, Council drop some ratepayers money in there and then call that a profit, that is how it is doen, when that happens you can make BS look like royal jelly any day of the week.
CLARITY IN A HALL OF MIRRORS
Posted on 05-05-2011 18:46 | By DRONE
There is no clarity to be seen here as all will be done and completed by way of CLOAK AND DAGGER I bet ya that the a $1 that TCC will roll out the carpet for multitudes of consultants and others to line up all of the genuine objectors and try to twist there arm annd some for a fee. Just so as there can be a ultra spend up on the house on this little pet project.
CLARIFY THESE ISSUES
Posted on 07-05-2011 09:58 | By WARTS N ALL
Like what is not "clarified" as far as I heard at the hearing and after reading the Commssioners report the whole thing looks absolutley crystal clear to me. The only thing that is not clear yet is 'I WANT, I WANT, I WANT...'. Get over it move on to some other mad cap scheme this one is history!
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