A Tauranga City Council decision to move the Welcome Bay Baptists off the Waitaha Reserve will be revisited following complaints from the church.
A delegation led by pastor Jeremy Dunmead, the lawyer and congregation members, visited the council earlier this week to protest in open forum about the amount being offered for their building.
They are being offered $61,500 relocatable value on a building the council staff say is worth $250,000 and Middleton Valuation says is worth $235,000.
The Baptists have been ensconced on the reserve for 22 years.
They hold Sunday services in the Welcome Bay Hall and in 1994 built their own community centre behind the church.
The council has chosen to buy-out the church and build its own community centre on the land.
'In choosing this option, the council elected to decline the church's earlier application for permission to expand its facilities at no cost to the council,” says Pastor Jeremy Denmead.
'For the council to offer a mere $61,500 is at best opportunistic and at worst insulting to the church.
'The church is an organisation that has invested heavily in the local community contributing to its culture, stability and welfare – it is strongly supported by local Maori.”
The council offer will deprive the church of its home and render it incapable of affording to relocate, says Jeremy. He wants the council to reconsider.
In discussion on Thursday, councillors decided to have another look at the original report before making any decision.
The church's lease on the Waitaha Reserve expires in 2012, a fact Bill Grainger says is well known to the church.
The church has occupied a public reserve for 16 years at a weekly rental of $4.75.
The church on the hill beside the village offered to share and they were turned down by the Baptists, says Bill.
'The church had its own plans too, for a play centre and community centre, but that centre would remain controlled by the church, and would not be suitable for all of the community,” says Bill Grainger.
'It is public reserve land and it has to be available for all of the community, not just what the church desires.”
The report will be dusted off and re-presented to council with a synopsis of events since it was voted on in 2010.
14 comments
LOL
Posted on 25-06-2011 12:06 | By Capt_Kaveman
$100k maybe but worth $250,000 just for the building get real
No community use identified
Posted on 25-06-2011 12:08 | By Murray.Guy
All lease agreements have end date. As the end date approaches an opportunity exists for both parties to revist the agreement, to terminate, extend, change the terms of the agreement. In this instance the Council has not identified any use for the small area of land occupied by the Church, in the medium, or long term. The church buildings add value to the old council community hall. Concern was expressed by Cr Grainger (and others) that there is resistance by some in the Welcome Bay community to accepting any community support services because of the Christian basis on which it operates. An intriguing theory as the Welcome Bay Community Centre, provided with free offices by the ratepayer ($10,000pa), also has as it's basis very clear links to churches, as does 'Foodbank' and many other community support organizations that provide critical services to our community. The Church is paying $250pa. That's $10,250 more than the Welcome Bay Community centre! Deny the Welcome Bay community the services provided by this church (in particular to at risk youth and the elderly) and I can promise you this - there will be an immediate cry for Council to provide those services, plus some. The cost to ratepayers, like the Arataki Community centre will be upwards of $3 million. There is already a concerted effort to extract funding for such a project at Welcome Bay, Merivale. Won't be long before Otumoetai starts to cry foul!
Sell them some of the land
Posted on 25-06-2011 15:07 | By Openknee8ted
Pay debt off, reduce rates. Who needs a council funded community centre that will only become a canvas for local taggers. Community groups can hire the church. Spend Spend Spend the council motto.
TCC offer: ‘at worst insulting’
Posted on 25-06-2011 16:50 | By Nigel Barker
**The church is an organisation that has invested heavily in the local community contributing to its culture, stability and welfare** ~ and obviously doing a wonderful voluntary job in the community. Well done *bows*. Now back to the headline. With respect what the h** did you expect? In my opinion an insulting response is about all that you can or should expect from elected members and paid bureaucrats with what I believe is an unacceptable attitude towards the citizens. An opinion that is feed on things like ~ 1) telling a Councilor he can not have some info and instructing her staff accordingly! 2)ignoring "ALL" comments, opinions, questions of or to them in this forum. 3) absolute refusal, at any cost, to with hold adequate financial reporting to The Citizens 4) total disrespect & arrogance for what The Citizens feel about many various issues 5) closed, as in jammed closed door when Citizens want questions answered by the office people (bureaucrats). And you good folk are surprised at "their" answer? PLEASE do not hinder your awesome work in a community that needs you and "Truly" appreciates your work. On behalf of them "Thank You" - Citizens Monitoring Council-
Bill Grainger ~ I want to scream at you
Posted on 25-06-2011 17:39 | By Nigel Barker
"SHAME"! However I will think it quietly instead. Until I get to read you response's to ~ 1)did I miss your public comments, opinion, dismay, support at the situation regarding the Otumoetai Pool fiasco? 2) is there anything more pressing, important, urgent to put your resources into at Council meeting? 3) in your opinion are the 'Welcome Bay Baptists'carrying out a much needed support role in the community? 4)how much does it cost Tauranga citizens to fund this organisation? For this comment **'It is public reserve land and it has to be available for all of the community, not just what the church desires.”** I am screaming,shouting from the roof tops,in the streets and on the internet "BILL IS THIS YOUR BEST ARRRRRRRG" Come on Bill you are one that I 'expected' better things from. -Citizens Monitoring Council-
Lets get the ratepayers to fund Islam whele we're at it
Posted on 25-06-2011 19:43 | By The Tomahawk Kid
First I am Forced to fund a waste of space they call an art gallery - something that the private sector would gladly supply FREE OF CHARGE AND COMPULSION. NEXT I am forced to fund a speedway Stadium - and I hate speedway. NOW I am forced to fund a bloody CHURCH - when is this madness going to end people? I despise religion of every denomination in all its forms - and now these religious people are trying to FORCE me to subsidise their faith in fairytales! What Next? If you lot want to believe in fairytales, then I suggest you fund it yourselves, with money DONATED (not stolen) from other likeminded people. Quite ganging up on the council to make them force ratepayers to fund your choice of religious nonsense.
Not a bad offer!
Posted on 26-06-2011 07:29 | By Honedaman
Actually I reckon that it's not a bad offer, it's in line with the $4.75 a week that they've been paying the long suffering ratepayers for the past 16 years, what are they moaning about!
Bill Grainger I am
Posted on 26-06-2011 22:53 | By Nigel Barker
where the hell are you Bill? Credit where it is due tho! "Murray" has fronted! "Murray" has commented! "Murray" Has told us 'his' truth! "Murray" appears to have some b***S! On the other hand! ~ "Bill" has ... ??? "Bill" will...?? (lol)"Bill" has done ...?? "Bill" & "Nothing" in the same sentence??! Any way folk I am outta here. Off to spend some time on Google and find out what the 'real' meanings of a few words & sayings are ~ gutless! balls! integrity! running! hiding! courage! passion! commitment! integrity! honesty! election promises! campaigning on previous results! not here for the status! its not about the money! I have donated TCC related income increases to charity...! Boss (Mayor)you do support me aye! As an aside, on the Tui add they say "Yea Right". I don't know what the means. -Citizens Monitoring Council-
Council want to FORCE you to be community spirited
Posted on 27-06-2011 17:22 | By The Tomahawk Kid
This is EXACTLY what happens when you artificially inflate, or FUND as they like to put it - ANYTHING with other peoples money. When the money is WITHHELD, the recipients of the stolen money are NO LONGER ABLE to find the means to do things themselves. This happens with EVERYTHING - schools, Music - anything where people are handed other peoples money - they lose the ability to keep themselves alive. Those who WERE passionate and did all the fundraising etc, find they are out of a job, and disappear when the benevolent ones (council or Govt) dish out some of their stolen loot. This is your model of FORCED community at work - and it FAILS. You cannot FORCE people to be community spirited - it comes from VOLUNTARY action and participation.
Mike Baker
Posted on 28-06-2011 08:51 | By Mike Baker
The Baptist church has occupied the site for many years and with the financial pressures that the Council is currently facing (and will for many years to come) there would appear to be little logic in removing a church that is ocontributing to the Welcome Bay Community and replacing it with a ratepayer funded facility. Citzens Monitoring Council representative Nigel Barker has a valid point in regard to Ward councillor Bill Graingers apparent silence on this issue but then he did, last year, vote for the churchs removal from the site so his silence on the subject is probably understandable as I suspect that his views will be unchanged.
AMISSION OF GUILTY ?
Posted on 28-06-2011 17:36 | By WARTS N ALL
Hello Mike, the clear message from you here is that in th light of day ... you are admitting that Council finances are a mess. Even now Mike you should know that TCC "must" replace the Church facilities as that is the only way to rack up monstorous new debt and make massive annual looses to boot. Do you recall Mt Greens, Baypark, Arataki Center, Baypark Arena ... just to meantion a few least we forget!!!! PS1 Bill G has commented, please read again ... PS2 Molloy lives in some other county it will take him a long time via bush telegraph to hear the news and latch on it, dont hold your breath! PS3 Nigel B aint got a hold on it either.
@ TCC
Posted on 28-06-2011 22:34 | By YABBA DABBA DO
A fridge in the councillors lounge full the to brim of beers for the boys, a sprinkle of top shelf stuff so as to be merry and a slealthy knack of avoiding the boys in blue ...
DIVERSION
Posted on 29-06-2011 16:14 | By Vomit
All you need to do is make a call and stealth away while the distraction is in progress, a little like the failed mimicky attempted last week in the CBD, but he got cuaght, always gotta have a fall guy in place to protect the "LEADER" from harm right ... PROVEN LEADERSHIP !
DIRECT LINE AVAILABLE
Posted on 30-06-2011 08:46 | By DRONE
I hear the Mayor knows the direct line to the boys in blue ... helpful that is
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