Well What a Surprise

Posted on 11-10-2011 09:48 | By tabatha

This announcement is well overdue, are they going to reimburse the Council for their over spend so ratepayers get no more surprises. Perhaps these are the two who did not do their homework properly and think the whole idea through. Yes in one way the idea was great but they forgot about where the pools were and the problems associated with such a great expansion. Now who is going to get the pools up to previous running order so locals and visitors can enjoy warmth and proper running of an asset that has been broken. Please TCC think carefully about who is appointed to the board and have some who know what they are doing.

About time

Posted on 11-10-2011 10:00 | By festino lente

They were the driving force behind what we see now. A mess of a hot pools, money overspending, limited regard to public needs or wants, and gross empire building. For years teh whole strategy was built around mkaing out the hot pools needed massive spending on it, using their consultants for everything from pool tog sales, to cafe planning, and gym growth. No one got to do anything without them being involved. Their movement is great news for TCAL and the way forward. A great day

Dont need hotpools as have a beach

Posted on 11-10-2011 11:38 | By JSmithington

There's no need for a great hotpool facility for locals and tourists. We've a fanstastic umspoiled beach. Ummm, ooops, let me rethink that in light of the current oil spill.

Mayday Captain and crew jumps ship

Posted on 11-10-2011 11:51 | By Openknee8ted

They can still be held accountable for going off course and causing serious damage I hope. The message to the rest of the board and staff is man the lifeboats the ship is going down.

THE OLD GUARD HAS GONE???

Posted on 11-10-2011 11:57 | By Roadkill

(Full report to The Sun 8/10/11) But has the guard really changed. Word from within Tauranga City Council is that there has been a clean out at the top of TCAL at last, this occurred and was confirmed by Council about over week ago, however the company annual return filed (subsequent to the Council meeting) at the Companies Office website shows that no change has yet occurred officially? For your information and consideration are the following facts: - Mike King has gone because of: - 1 In-fighting, and 2 His personal and vested interests in the Wellness Centre and redevelopment of his own consulting company, and 3 The cost to TCAL and ratepayers of this failed "adventure", and 4 The cost to TCAL of all the travel and large amount of reimbursements, and Warren Banks is gone because of: - 1 His arrogance, and 2 Confrontational manner of conduct and behaviour in doing anything therefore upsetting staff and others (same as previous employment), and 3 Failed leadership as Chairman of director's of TCAL, and 4 Repeat effort of trying to get the Wellness Centre approved again, the same reasons as in 2000 still apply today, and 5 Failure to comply with elected members request for a business case and other information prior to applying for a resource consent and so on. They have been replaced by CEO Paterson and word has it that David Love has been "co-opted" to be a directors also, it is unknown who else is being considered at this time, is there a political element to the appointment(s) or what? The Director's regardless still lack financial and fiscal competence as a group and that is clearly what has been lacking to date and going forward there is no sign of an improvement CEO Delahunty is looking to be shrouded and thick cloud at this time, her future in this role is also being considered and is precarious also, the report before Councillors raises many questions on the remaining directors and senior management for the millions of dollars that have been needlessly spent and wasted on this badly planned and very badly managed project. The basis of it is flawed and that is known to all parties at TCAL hence the move at long last to do something to stem the outflow of cost of consultants, lawyers and staff cost all be it to late now in many respects. All of the above raises serious questions about the ability of the TCAL managements ability right through to the supervision and ability of the TCC management of TCAL such that somewhere in the region of $2.5 - $3.0 million in consultant and similar costs has been incurred to date. All of which is needless waste of ratepayers money as the Projects Committee in March 2000 "canned" a previous version of a project proposal at the Hot Pools for the same reasons, serious questions should be asked of those involved. There are a number of Councillors who were around at that time and have been a party to it now: namely the current Mayor was chairman of the Projects committee in 2000, he is well aware of what happened then so why has TCAL spent all of this money now for the same thing to fail and get the same result at a huge cost to ratepayers of some $4.0 - $4.5 million after adding in just some TCC staff wage costs. This only serves to reinforce the failure to TCAL to account to TCC and of TCC's inability to act and manage adequately on behalf of ratepayers best interests, but rather to follow a path of self interest and indulgence with little limitation or accountability. Does this reflect the general path and behaviour pattern of TCC generally? What assurances can TCC provide that this kind of conduct will not be allowed to occur again? Another question that comes to mind, that relates to why Deputy Mayor David Stewart resigned from TCAL early this year? When in fact he was appointed no doubt to represent TCC and so act responsibly for and on behalf of ratepayer's best interests, rather than that he resigned. As reported at the time the Mayor's "Yes-man" resigned. I look forward to reading your column and of course you're "JOURNALIST INVESTIGATION" on this one. With regards Maryanne PS: a recorded interview posted up online with the following would reveal plenty: - Mayor Crosby Tania David Stewart Mike King, although likely in Australia now? CEO Ken Paterson Some Councillors

Investigation due

Posted on 11-10-2011 12:08 | By SpeakUp

A full and thorough investigation is now due and any failings have to be prosecuted. The population had enough of dubious and costly mismanagement.

Probably Poms

Posted on 11-10-2011 12:50 | By Kin

Dep Mayor is off like a rat. Had his fill on the gravy train and now tries to wash his hands of it. Is he a doddery old Pom?

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AT TCC AND TCAL

Posted on 11-10-2011 12:55 | By Roadkill

(Full report to The Sun 8/10/11) But has the guard really changed. Word from within Tauranga City Council is that there has been a clean out at the top of TCAL at last, this occurred and was confirmed by Council about over week ago, however the company annual return filed (subsequent to the Council meeting) at the Companies Office website shows that no change has yet occurred officially? For your information and consideration are the following facts: - Mike King has gone because of: - 1 In-fighting, and 2 His personal and vested interests in the Wellness Centre and redevelopment of his own consulting company, and 3 The cost to TCAL and ratepayers of this failed "adventure", and 4 The cost to TCAL of all the travel and large amount of reimbursements, and Warren Banks is gone because of: - 1 His arrogance, and 2 Confrontational manner of conduct and behaviour in doing anything therefore upsetting staff and others (same as previous employment), and 3 Failed leadership as Chairman of director's of TCAL, and 4 Repeat effort of trying to get the Wellness Centre approved again, the same reasons as in 2000 still apply today, and 5 Failure to comply with elected members request for a business case and other information prior to applying for a resource consent and so on. They have been replaced by CEO Paterson and word has it that David Love has been "co-opted" to be a directors also, it is unknown who else is being considered at this time, is there a political element to the appointment(s) or what? The Director's regardless still lack financial and fiscal competence as a group and that is clearly what has been lacking to date and going forward there is no sign of an improvement CEO Delahunty is looking to be shrouded and thick cloud at this time, her future in this role is also being considered and is precarious also, the report before Councillors raises many questions on the remaining directors and senior management for the millions of dollars that have been needlessly spent and wasted on this badly planned and very badly managed project. The basis of it is flawed and that is known to all parties at TCAL hence the move at long last to do something to stem the outflow of cost of consultants, lawyers and staff cost all be it to late now in many respects. All of the above raises serious questions about the ability of the TCAL managements ability right through to the supervision and ability of the TCC management of TCAL such that somewhere in the region of $2.5 - $3.0 million in consultant and similar costs has been incurred to date. All of which is needless waste of ratepayers money as the Projects Committee in March 2000 "canned" a previous version of a project proposal at the Hot Pools for the same reasons, serious questions should be asked of those involved. There are a number of Councillors who were around at that time and have been a party to it now: namely the current Mayor was chairman of the Projects committee in 2000, he is well aware of what happened then so why has TCAL spent all of this money now for the same thing to fail and get the same result at a huge cost to ratepayers of some $4.0 - $4.5 million after adding in just some TCC staff wage costs. This only serves to reinforce the failure to TCAL to account to TCC and of TCC's inability to act and manage adequately on behalf of ratepayers best interests, but rather to follow a path of self interest and indulgence with little limitation or accountability. Does this reflect the general path and behaviour pattern of TCC generally? What assurances can TCC provide that this kind of conduct will not be allowed to occur again? Another question that comes to mind, that relates to why Deputy Mayor David Stewart resigned from TCAL early this year? When in fact he was appointed no doubt to represent TCC and so act responsibly for and on behalf of ratepayer's best interests, rather than that he resigned. As reported at the time the Mayor's "Yes-man" resigned.

A glimmer

Posted on 11-10-2011 13:00 | By PeteDashwood

I went to the pools a few days ago. It is a heartbreak. The jets which brought relief to tired muscles have been transformed into funnels that trickle water over you. More of a Sopwith camel than a "jet"... One of the spa pools has gone. Too hard to fix it. They only had three and a half million... I enquired regarding a pair of togs I left in the Men's changing rooms just before the complex closed. "Oh, we threw everything out during the clean up." "You threw away other people's property?" "Er... no, we gave it to the Salvation Army." So, that's all right then. Glad my expensive swimsuit went to a good cause. Perhaps I can go there and buy my own property back. Like Tabatha, festino lente and SpeakUp I think there needs to be a recovery of what we had, and a full investigation of this whole sad fiasco. The stepping down of the Directors is a step in the right direction but resignation should not be allowed to absolve them and their CEO from responsibility. While we will never get our money back, can't we at least get our Hot Pools back?

FIASCO @ THE MOUNT HOT POOLS

Posted on 11-10-2011 14:53 | By Roadkill

Criticism of the repaired Mount Hot Pools is completely justified and the response from TCAL is divorced from the reality of the actual situation. The Mount Hot Pools re-opened at 4 p.m. Wednesday 21 September 2011. A swim the day after showed the water temperature in the main and passive pool was good but only average in the spa pool. The position for the following week was much the same according to all reports. At the official re-opening, temperatures were much lower and unsatisfactory. Patron numbers over the first week were quite light. As to the official Saturday re-opening and all the hype, why did TCC waste this money on a sausage sizzle that had stopped by 1.30 p.m., and employ a very good band that played Jazz but hardly a Hot Pool gig. There was reasonable attendance of mainly kids and parents. Let's look at to the repair work itself that took 18 weeks to complete sad the history of this; Following complaints and a public meeting about pool temperatures in May 2011, the Hot Pools were immediately shut down for investigation then closed permanently for repairs. The pool repair contract it seems without any tendering process and completely contrary to TCC's own procurement policy and guidelines, awarded to Mainzeal which is a building company, it is not a pool repair specialist. Somehow a figure of $1.5 million was arrived at for the repairs and approved by Council to be paid out from a depreciation account relating to the pools. The observation was that work began very slowly existing pipes were removed and slowly over the next 18 weeks gradually replaced. A check of the existing pipes taken out showed them to be in a good state although a bit less in diameter than the larger black replacement pipes. There were always plenty of vehicles there, but very little evidence of work on site. Finally the concourses were refilled and re-concreted in place of exposed aggregate. Once Hot Pools re-opened, an inspection showed the following: - (f) The original reason for closure was leak(s) of 50,000 litres per day, the source of which has never been located. When the main active pool was refilled recently it was found to be half-empty the next day, why was that? (g) The large shade sail, the supporting frame and anchor points from passive pool have all gone - where has the sail gone? Apparently some foundations (part of the non-consented redevelopment plans) for umbrellas have been put in place, but no umbrellas are currently there and apparently the 'huge” profits made don't run far enough to meet the cost of a couple of umbrellas which will be of no use to the passive pool users? Word has it that TCAL is 'hitting up” TCC for $30,000 for a couple of umbrellas? (h) The main spa pool is now concreted in and is unusable. (i) Those plastic cube clothes boxes were destroyed initially had not been replaced, so there was a shortage and what was left, in the end result looked terrible. (j) Two new main black light standards with banks of 4 lights each installed and some other smaller lights also. (k) Wooden deck platform near office ripped out - why? (l) The major concourses have been concreted with an inconsistent brush finish and are now cracking through lack of expansion joints and or inadequate compaction/use of vibrator etc. Parts of the exposed aggregate have been left in place near changing rooms entrances. (m) Showers - Cold water must be run for about 3 minutes, shower roses replaced in Women's Changing Rooms and floor painted. Men's Changing Rooms missing probably 15 chrome clothes hooks there previously, why are the hooks not there now? Nothing else done in there. (n) Spa pool temperatures are woefully short of target and water still looks murky. (o) Minor damage caused as a result of repair work has been ignored. (p) The four new water jets/spouts are a complete waste of time, poorly sited, no pressure and you can not effectively get close to them anyway. (q) It does not look like the facilities have been properly cleaned at all. (r) No sign of cleaning up the grouting of the pool tiles. None of the pool nib walls have been repainted yellow anywhere. With the pool facility closed and all pools emptied it was the perfect opportunity to clean and repaint all the pool facilities and clean it up a bit prior to reopening. (s) An access ramp for disabled people to enter the main pool or passive pool should have been by way of a concrete ramp - not a big item at all and easily accommodated. Even if the pools had remained closed for another week it would have been okay to complete this work. (t) Why was a specialist community swimming pool firm not engaged as the Head Contractor as that was the prime function and purpose of the contract works to be completed and it could have sub-contracted out for any construction work to the likes of Mainzeal for the minor work needed from them as part of the overall job. (u) This whole debacle has been running for years and in fact some aspects for a decade, yet the current management mindset appears completely oblivious to the following: -  What is being spent  Why it is being spent  TCC procurement processes (that actually need an overhaul anyway)  Clueless about what is actually been done, goals and purposes of the work to be done.  Any appreciation of public opinion, refer to the chairman's comments that 'thought had public support”.  TCAL absolute disdain for a minimum standard of accountability to its masters TCC and ratepayers but instead relentlessly barrelling onward with ratepayers cheque book through the consent and repair process without clearly achieving any objectives that they started out with.  A failure to complete the tasks assigned to it by TCC e.g. provide development options, budgets and business plans.  Spending millions on consultants on a project that had already been previously shelved in March 2000 by the then Projects committee (chairman at the time was Councillor Crosby)  Spending millions on TCC staff wages dedicated to this project its planning and so on when the reasons for failure now were already known at least as far back as in 2000. (v) Paying for these works 'from depreciation” that has been provided for by TCC for TCAL's depreciation just does not add up, there are no obvious funds set aside in TCAL or TCC for this purpose. Regardless of the TCC 'smoke n mirrors” book keeping going on at TCAL and for that matter TCC, in the real world the repair bill is a cost and expense to TCAL and should be recorded clearly such. It is very difficult to see where the $1.5 million (likely to be closer to $2 million) has been spent and even more difficult to comprehend that there can be cost overruns. There needs to be a full independent investigation into this repair project and how it has been handled. Clearly there is no connection between 'results” and spending at TCAL or for that matter at TCC. Taking everything into account from a users point of view, the Hot Pools are in much worse shape than when they closed. Consideration must be given to setting up a Community group of about 7 people made up residents and regular users who currently have no relationship with TCC or TCAL to report back monthly on the Mount Hot Pools operation. They can report directly to TCC CEO Paterson with observations, recommendations and monitoring reports on progress made to get things at the Mount Hot Pools back on track. TCAL are impossible to deal with and the likelihood of change is remote, there needs to be a significant change in attitude. The current situation is a disgraceful fiasco, it almost looks like it is planned to fail so as to 'justify” next stage of an insanely expensive whim. Be warned the Wellness Centre is still in the mix. Friends of the Mount Hot Pools

Look at successful areas

Posted on 11-10-2011 14:55 | By Calm Gully

When these plans are put forward, does someone just sit and make up ideas (or lack of) there are many successful pool complexes (sport and leisure, hot and cold) in this country. If money is going to be spent - get it right the first time. Baywave is a laugh and the Hot pools are joining them. Other complexes are old and dottery too, we will have nothing soon??? When a pool is built surely maintenance is build into the budget? Look at Auck, ChCh, Taupo, Hamilton, Wellington and many more - how do they have such lovely facilities?

Councils Accountability is at the next Election

Posted on 11-10-2011 15:47 | By wreck1080

If you don't like it, then convince your fellow citizens to vote these council members and mayor out of office. I do not like Crosby and his cohorts, never voted for them but the last election shows most people do like him so I am the minority. I agree the hotpool repairs are an absolute disaster. What kind of circus spends millions on repairs only to end up with poorer facilities (in my opinion). But, most tauranga ratepayers don't really care, and no doubt will vote the same people again next time round. These people who just resigned have failed badly, and cost us a lot of money to boot.

Hot Pools

Posted on 11-10-2011 16:29 | By Glen Clova

Fill them in and make a carpark.

Mount Pools -Directors in hot water ?

Posted on 11-10-2011 16:44 | By MINDER

Warren Banks having regard to his recent comments needed to take a reality check. The blame for the funds said to be over $3 million wasted on the Mount Hot Pools consultancy and project planning lies squarely at the feet of TCAL Board of which he was the Chairman until now. A few people did not stop this thing happening it was the Commissioner's decision that the RMA application for a Wellness Centre did not meet environmental scrutiny that scuttled it. And no Councillor Moultrie - ex-Mayor of Mount Maunganui - stop spitting the dummy, a lawyer presenting the RMA application would have made no difference to the result and anyway Deputy Mayor David Stewart, who was the Council appointed Director on TCAL at that time, could always have requested a lawyer to act. TCAL was so sure that the application would succeed they didn't care whether or not the scheme would comply environmentally. The conclusion that this was a financial lemon without a proper business case although irrelevant to the Environment Court was of the utmost concern to TCC ratepayers. A Wellness Centre construction contract should never have been entered into with Mainzeal until an RMA Consent was obtained. This was arrogance at its worst, all for the sake of a Wellness Centre as it really had very little to do with an upgrade or maintenance of the Mount Hot Pools themselves. Be warned - the cost of the latest remedial and repair work, said to be in the vicinity of $2 million will be put under scrutiny. The work was not tendered was not peer reviewed, and the primary head contractor was not a community swimming pool specialist. Ask yourself, 18 weeks for basically renewing the underground piping and a plant upgrade plus even the leak was not located?

Posted on 11-10-2011 16:45 | By The author of this comment has been removed.

Thank goodness someone has been made accountable for such incredibly bad care of our once gorgeous Mount Hot Pools. Please, whoever does the appointing, place some people in charge who genuinely love the Hot Pools, and are not using them for their own agendas.

100% Correct Turkey Shoot

Posted on 11-10-2011 16:45 | By Zara

Of course they wanted the repairs to be substandard as it was only a "temporary fix" and would only put more pressure on the users to fold and agree to the new proposal. It will be interesting to see what our powerhouse council, Mayor,and CEO decide to do next . My guess is they will take a leaf out of Maritime New Zealands book and do very little and blame us for daring to ask as much as a simple question let alone give us a straight answer

Turkey Shoot ...

Posted on 11-10-2011 17:26 | By Matt

That's all gobble-de-gook. Get yourself a blog and invest in paragraphs as that is just a wall of text

Running for Cover

Posted on 11-10-2011 20:05 | By carpedeum

Wow so another two PAID staff running for cover before the whole truth is unveiled!!! This entire thing needs a FULL investigation dating right back to when the Australian Company was running it- then through and cover hoe come Tania Delahunty managed to pay out so many millions to MainZeal BEFORE the Council had even approved the enlarged/expanded plans !!! ITS RATEPAYERS MONEY IN THE END

Shame

Posted on 11-10-2011 20:06 | By DaKiwiBean

Now Speakup, Turkey shoot, Tabatha, Openknee8ted and all the other negitive ones, trust you have a solution? it appears you have killed off a TCC income stream. Now lets see your answers....

Posted on 11-10-2011 20:23 | By The author of this comment has been removed.

Dont blame the staff down at the Hot Pools.They are as pissed of as us about the state of the pool.Bring the old manager (mike)back to the Pool and give him a decent budget.He had his hands tied from above and any ideas he had were just stood on from above

SELL IT IMMEDIATELY

Posted on 11-10-2011 21:01 | By The Tomahawk Kid

What the hell is the council running hot pools for anyway? The councillors are in council because they are DO-GOODERS - not because they are successful businessmen. You want a good, efficient complex serving the needs and wants of people willing to purchase the admission price, then sell it to a PRIVATE COMPANY. It will be in their financial interest to have it run efficiently, with quality services that people wish to purchase. All care - no responsibility wil Never and has never worked. It is impossible. Remove the council - those responsible for PREVENTING us from having a private business run a quality service as - quickly as possible. Then get them out of ALL avenues of entertainment as part 2 of the process. The councillors are in council because they are DO-GOODERS - not because they are businessmen.

NO MORE PICNC BASKETS HERE

Posted on 11-10-2011 21:16 | By YOGI

I can not even go down to the beach now to score a few free lunches as they have ruined that to.

@ TOMMY HAWK

Posted on 11-10-2011 21:19 | By ANNA KISSED

Mate it is such a mess out there that no one now will want to touch it espeocally if they have to pay, TCC yet again will have to dig deep in RATEPAYERS coffers and add even more to your rates to be able to try and bail out of this.

GET TCC's REPORT UP HERE

Posted on 11-10-2011 23:45 | By TERMITE

Can we see the full report to TCC, it actually recommended a clean sweep of the TCAL directors, why has only half the job been done.

FLOODING IN THE POOLS AGAIN!

Posted on 12-10-2011 03:56 | By SCARLET PIMPINEL

All is not well "in" the pools, ops I mean "OUT" of the pools, some considerable and expensive effort has been made to cover up the fact that a pump has been installed at Baywave to pump out "SURPLUS WATER" from under the pools there. This is not ground water and it is certainly not sea water either as it is "WARM AND CHLORINATED". This SURPLUS water is being pumped into the sewerage system and is ends up in the Te Munga oxidation ponds then it all goes out to sea to get rid of it all. Earlier this year TCAL CEO Tania Delahunty was reported as saying that water meters had been installed and then only did TCAL know that water was going missing at the Mount Hot Pools. Well the bad news is that TCAL have known for a long time that water is also "DISSAPPEARING" out of TCAL's Baywave pools also. The solution to the problem is that they have installed a pump to suck it out and so make it go away, so now there is a whole lot of warm water being wasted again, what is that costing to warm up the ground beneath that building and of course the oceans. Looks like the deception continues onward in TCAL, if this proves to be accurate and already known then Councillors need to complete the task started and as noted in this article. The remaining directors need to go and also those that have covered with "SHAMBLES" also.

? Profit Stream?

Posted on 12-10-2011 09:51 | By carpedeum

Hey dakiwibean.... remember-there is a difference in PROFIT for the TCC and money "saved" by NOT doing the required maintenance over the years

Hip Hip Hooray !

Posted on 12-10-2011 10:03 | By Jitter

At last a couple of these clowns have got the message and jumped ship. When is the CEO leaving ? She has to go. Some great comments thus far. "Turkey Shoot" has produced some very interesting information. The appointment of David Love to the board will bring vast experience, common sense, stability and accountability which has been missing up until now.

COUNCIL CONTROL?

Posted on 12-10-2011 10:32 | By Openknee8ted

Where is the Council Control in this Council Controlled Organisation? TIME FOR AN EARLY ELECTION OF TCC.

THERE IS A LEAK IN MY BOAT

Posted on 12-10-2011 11:37 | By PLONKER

Dear Jamima! The wheels are falling off at a great rate of knots here, all was predictable and of course the window of oppurtunity to avoid is long since past now with a storm in progress.

Addiction to gambling with ratepayers money

Posted on 12-10-2011 18:53 | By The Tomahawk Kid

I have an idea! Why dont the council get into the BRAIN SURGERY market? As has been made plainly obvious from all the other professional business avenues they have involved themselves in, they dont need to KNOW anything about it - all they need to do is purchase a few scalpels and stuff and away they go! There are plenty of prime suspects out there (ie those who voted them in) who could do with a bit of a "touch-up" Yes of course that's silly! but no sillier than council involving themselves in ANYTHING they do not have the experience or skills to undertake. Council should involve themselves in the BASIC REQUIREMENTS of running a civilised city. This EXCLUDES the need to DABBLE and GAMBLE in the business or entertainment fields of which they are unqualified to undertake. It is councillors addiction to gambling with other peoples money (for their own good of course) that puts us in this mess in the first place. Let private enterprise gamble THEIR money, and stop gambling with stolen ratepayers loot. Rates could be HALVED if council were to only mind their CORE business, leaving ratepayers with money in their pockets to spend on things THEY value.

THIS LOT, ABSOLUTE WASTE OF TIME AND SPACE

Posted on 12-10-2011 20:09 | By ANNA KISSED

How do they possibly stay in the job and manage to even get the job, indications from below here are that a lot was known about what the history of these people was before they got there so why appoint them in the first place, why allow them to stay. The best example of course is King, he has a clear persoanl percuniary gain to be made from all that is going on, yet this bloke is allowed to stay and in affect vote himself monthly cheques at a wimp and all of that comes form ratepayers money. The really "SCARRRRRRY" part is, what don't e know of yet?

NO SURPRISES HERE

Posted on 12-10-2011 22:24 | By PLONKER

Now I guess everyine is starting to see the reasons why TCC pay about $9 million a year to TCAL, of course TCAL think then that they "make money".

WHERE ARE THE

Posted on 12-10-2011 22:37 | By DRONE

Headed for the hills as it looks like the "NAY-SAYERS" have been proved to be the "SOOTH-YAYERS1" Done and dusted ... game set match ... next time the YA-SAYER turkeys try and stick their head up it will be plucked over again!

TRICKY QUESTION!

Posted on 12-10-2011 23:02 | By MISS ADVENTURE

What do TCAL and the Rena have in common? No one left on board to 'float ya boat', they have certainly let go of the life line for sure!

Question

Posted on 12-10-2011 23:24 | By Demandthetruth

As TCAL CEO Delahunty stated that water meters were fitted to hot pools - are they also fitted to Baywave????????? If so what useage has been happening?? Thers a hole in my bucket dear liza (oops Tania)

Horrible litany of non disclosures & non accountability

Posted on 13-10-2011 10:03 | By Scambuster

Put the whole TCC /TCAL Aquatics outfit into receivership/liquidation and then take it back into TCC Council where it belongs as this will cut staff, wages and administration costs.At the very least it will stop the 'smoke and mirrors' accounting bull**** and perhaps let ratepayers see some valid non creative annual. accounts. WTF

FALLEN IN THE WATER ......

Posted on 13-10-2011 11:42 | By DRONE

Or is it fallen on the sword again? When is it that the parties involved in this deliberate RORT of RATEPAYERS public money be held accountable to the ratepayers rather than being swept under the carpet! Or is it more appropriately stated as "flushed away down the sewer?" If so then when do all the turds get flushed on a one way ticket to oblivion????????????

@Scambuster

Posted on 14-10-2011 11:18 | By The Tomahawk Kid

Your solution you propose will deliver MORE of what we have got now! When will you people ever learn? You got the first bit right though! Put it into receivership, and sell it to the highest bidder - somebody who is willing to put up their OWN money and provide a quality service at a price people are willing to pay (free of compulsion). This will reduce ratepayer funding of councill staff to ZERO. It will reduce ratepayer responsibility to ZERO. It will reduce accountability to ZERO for the ratepayers. AND will result in a private company providing a quality product to attract people who wish to use it - once again FREE OF COMPULSION. WTF back!

ONE STEP AT A TIME

Posted on 15-10-2011 08:47 | By Investigator

TOMAHAWK you seem to intent on taking quantum leaps. You cannot go from Zero to Hero overnight.Your end solution has merit but you have to follow back through the chain to get some semblance of order first and to get a handle on the books to see where this thing has gone off the rails then attribute accountability. When that has been achieved and only then can you look at the next step namely privatising the business operation. It must be said that the last 2 or 3 attempts at that in respect of Mount Hotpools have failed. All those in the know realise something is radically wrong but we need to force TCC to work through it by demanding accountability and transparency about what has gone on.Do you get the picture ?

@Investigator

Posted on 15-10-2011 10:25 | By The Tomahawk Kid

Thanks for your reply. The way I see it is that you wish to use more of the SAME that got us all in this mess in the first place! - Namely FORCE (you even said it yourself! If what I propose is not the ideal solution to THIS mess (although I believe it is!), then it should prove a perfect case NOT to repeat it in the future. The problem is that THE PEOPLE have become so addicted to other peoples money, and Council/government, and "what are they going to do about it" insisting that THEY are the only ones capable of providing us with ENTERTAINMENT and other non-essential wishlists. People need to lose their addiction to council and Government - take back their responsibility for their lives, rights, and property, and stop giving them to do-gooders and career politicians - It only ends in tears (or custard!) of which these pools are a perfect example.

"KEY" FACTOR HERE

Posted on 15-10-2011 15:16 | By CRUMPY

They did not resign really, the official TCC report tabled in the secret meetings was that some/all directors be shall we say "asked to leave", the reasons (that can be printed anyway) are alredy up here in the Turkey Shoot posting called 'The old guard has gone???' That will put in the right frame of mind to then read all lse in the right context.

TOMAJAWK YOU HAVE LOST THE

Posted on 15-10-2011 15:54 | By YOGI

For the track you should have been on, you are in affect sidelined your self. What Investigator was saying is right, if this lot of CANE TOAD at TCC can not muster enough brain cells to see that TCAL are running a RORT financially then us ratepayers are the only ones to drag them back into line and show us what is really happening at TCAL. Then and only then can we "slip the anchor chain" and slide off the financial reef" and get to keep the "GOOD OIL" (our rates money from keeping these BOZOS out of our chequebook.

OFF LOAD IT QUICK

Posted on 16-10-2011 10:21 | By Crash test dummies

Get them to open up the books then lease it out to someone private to manage and run it, that will mean about 15-16 staff will be on the payroll and customer service will be perfect.

@Jaffa & Tomahawk Kid

Posted on 16-10-2011 13:22 | By Demandthetruth

You lot are dreaming. The privatisation issue has been tried a number of times & failed. You Jaffa, are obviously a commercial incompetent, thinking it can be run by 15 staff . On the other hand the current Directors (incl ex Directors total 3) together with (present) current CEO Delahunty think you need about 150 + staff - they are totally nuts; and ALL need removing. There are 5 pools; 2 of which have the high demand, so given the hours operated a reasonable concession, staff requirement is in the vicinity of maximum 80 This would include an experienced commercial General Manager (no CEO on grandiose salary), probably at $100k max; & 2 Administration, untainted by having worked at TCC. A 4 person competent Board of 2 elected members (similar to TCC/TECT/DHB) 1 appointee selected from businessman applications and 1 nominee Councillor. The Directors should be paid appropriately and fully accountable to the elected Council ( as TCAL is a Council City ratepayer owned company) To be operated with a mission statement, to an agreed business plan, with proper and complete accountability, budget and accounting; reporting to Council at least quarterly, with truthful information, then made public in the paper. Each year a full & proper annual report and budget presentation approved by the Directors, presented to Council with recommendations and if necessary applications where other support or proposals need to be made. As it is public money no major works can be carried out without a proper public tender. TOO SIMPLE?? If the formula is not interfered with, given time & done with integrity it will work and may even provide a return to support borrowings. As for the coffee shop & gym, this should be leased (even if it is nominal) out on a deal to entice good operators at no cost to TCAL or TCC after a break in period.

@Yogi

Posted on 16-10-2011 13:57 | By The Tomahawk Kid

Council have already spent millions, and who knows where or when the spending will end. You are intent on making the council accountable, and finding out WHY it went wrong, and WHERE the money has gone etc, and that is fair enough, although to me it seems the equivalent of asking the Big Bad Wolf to investigate Why the little pigs have gone missing! which of course will cost even MORE ratepayers money. The rort will never end. SELL IT NOW! Remove them from the equation so that they are no longer in a position to spend more stolen loot. HOWEVER council should NOT be involved in this kind of thing in the first place. They are only in it because misquided and immoral people keep demanding that council force other people to pay for THEIR entertainment. RATES should NOT be paying for this in the first place (apart from the rates a private company would be paying to council for the essential services provided). What INVESTIGATOR is correct to a point. I dont want to know where it went wrong, OR make council accountable! Its too late for that - I want them OUT OF THE PICTURE, and to cease the pillage and further theft from ratepayers, and to REMOVE THEMSELVES from the entertainment business.

LITTLE RED RIDING HOOD

Posted on 16-10-2011 15:46 | By YOGI

@ TOMAHAWK KID, I do agree with your concept of the wolf and piglets, they are all gone. I want to know who gotem! Yes they have spent millions and some, it is not acceptable that once that cheque is gone that all and sundry can walk away free from that, all of us ratepayers are left carrying teh "baby" here and only fair to know who, how and why! Of course common sense says that this will be happening throughout TCC, so taking this apart will pay huge dividends by cleaning up the whole act/show/mirage/spin-doctors chirade currently in place now.

@ TOMAHAWK KID

Posted on 16-10-2011 15:51 | By YOGI

Agreed on the constant handout brigade that exists, it is long over due that a sector of citizens had the "Cord cut" and had to fend for themselves and so stop putting their hand out and expecting endless handouts of "NICE TO HAVES" or "I WANT WANT ..." on each and every silly little idea that comes to mind. Council does need to get back to the basics and stop wandering off aimlessly where ever on spending sprees of borrowed money. Yes agreed on getting all the current lot out of the picture and gone. Send then to Auckland or Iraq or something, further is better on a one-way ticket.

MAKE IT HURT PUT THEM ON THE RACK

Posted on 16-10-2011 17:39 | By Investigator

TOMAHAWK these buzzards need to be held accountable and face the blame otherwise they will bob up again like a cork smelling of roses. They need to be nailed once and for all so they will not seek public office/ employment ever again. That lesson will force Council back into the core services arena quicker than you can say "Howzzat"

VULTURES AND BUZZEREDS?

Posted on 16-10-2011 20:58 | By Crash test dummies

Spot the diffeence, all on the take for self, never mind the rest, the problem is that if I threw my Tomma Hawk at them it don't come back. Shame that the same idea does not apply to this mottley lot especially.

Thank you Yogi and Investigator

Posted on 17-10-2011 16:51 | By The Tomahawk Kid

I had a feeling we were disagreeing at cross purposes there. Fair enough that you should all like some accountability - And so they should be made accountable, I have been arguing that It is too late now - the money has gone, and the services are STILL not there. I just wish to cut any further losses and inefficiency. You see, I believe that All those in council are there for the RIGHT REASONS - ie they want to make Tga a better place. The problem is in the way they go about it in the same old unprincipled fashion (sorry Investigator - the record is stuck again! :-) Which GUARANTEES they just end up as part of the problem instead of the solution they would REALLY favour. None of them are there for the wrong reasons (my belief anyway) - they just dont have the right skills or WAY of getting what they want to achieve (no principles!) Council need to DESIST IMMEDIATELY from entering into non-essential business, and concentrate on the IMPORTANT STUFF ONLY, and let the free market provide all the things WE wish to PURCHASE ourselves (ie user pays). The only people who complain about user pays are those who WANT something, but want OTHERS to pay for it (looters and bludgers)

@demandthetruth

Posted on 17-10-2011 17:06 | By The Tomahawk Kid

What do you mean privatisation has been tried and failed? If it fails when they do it, those who take the gamble of their OWN FREE WILL, are the ones who lose out. When the COUNCIL fail, they do it with other peoples money. When they fail, they just put the rates up and charge people (by force) to subsidise their failure. When a private company runs it, I dont CARE how many staff they chose to employ - its none of my business. When council own it, it becomes my business whether I want it to be or not. I could perhaps understand your point of view if this was an ESSENTIAL SERVICE we are talking about, but this is HOT POOLS! So what if a private company fails! If council are so worried about this as an essential service, perhaps they could have a clause in the SALE AGREEMENT that states the new owners must operate it to a certain level of quality (somewhat better than THEY managed to do which wouldnt be hard). LEASING IT OUT is a terrible idea! Who in their right mind would invest the huge sums of money in it to make it a quality service just so the council could snatch it back again! The only solution is to SELL IT - Immediately, or else you will continue to get a crap facility with crap service, and something to continue giving you all something to moan about ad infinitum. If it belongs to somebody else - Its none of your business - is it?

The Hospital Pass hot potato syndrome

Posted on 17-10-2011 21:26 | By Hebegeebies

Having done the sums privatisation will not work because you need 365000 people a year to use the Hotpools. Despite what TCAL propaganda spins out the Mount Pools run at a significant substantial loss because of shocking mismanagement.You could not give this 'business' away in its current financial state.

Thank you Yogi and Investigator

Posted on 18-10-2011 06:33 | By Crash test dummies

To Tomahawk Kid, yes you nailed that one, all I would add is that they, meaning Councillors, are acting to the best of their ability, but sadly for the rest fo us they actually have no idea how far short of the mark they really are, if only the Councillors could step out of the mindset they are programmed for and see from the outside what it actually looks like when not completely immersed in it.

The bloody water is still cold !!

Posted on 18-10-2011 12:46 | By KAMIKAZE

Come on guys don't sweat the small stuff. Over the past week or so the temperatures at the Mount Hotpools have gone down to tepid at best warm.What the hell have TCAL just spent $2million on ?. Do we have a repair report a summary of work done and the costings ? NO WAY JOSE`.

WARMER OUT OF THE WATER

Posted on 18-10-2011 15:02 | By MASSA KISSED

What is the point of a 'HOT' pool when that is the case? Demand to see the trumpted up contract and trumpted up invoices for $2 million odd and then look at the lack of work done, no results achieved and more. One can only hope that some official has not already paid the bill!!! Send the bills back to where they came from i think is the only way to get there attention to "PUT IT RIGTH" but of course they no doubt have paid for this half baked scheme because the payments have little to do with the Hot Pools repairs and everything to do with a severence payment on the redevelopment contract that did not happen (just as well on this performance and result if you ask me). BRING BACK THE HOT WATER!!!!!!!

Private operators

Posted on 18-10-2011 16:25 | By festino lente

there are many NZ and OZ companies that specialise in running facilities. They have varying degrees of private ownership, from 50/50 partnerships to 100% commercially operated. There are operators for eg in oz who are looking for a staging ground to enter the NZ market. Why are we persisting in leaving the CEO in place and the TCAL operation struggling from one calamity to another with rate payer money. Just make the call and see what the private sector has to offer

NOT LISTENING SO DUMP THEM

Posted on 19-10-2011 15:16 | By Insider

Pool temperatures today were pathetic far worse than when the Pools closed down in may to remedy the temperature issues and to find the leaks - TCAL have not achieved either objective. It appears leaks have now sprung up in the plant room. SO WHERE TO NOW TCC & TCAL ??

@festino lent

Posted on 19-10-2011 15:34 | By The Tomahawk Kid

At last somebody talking sense. No private sector investor will invest in anything like this when the council is likely to come along and provide one of their own, subsidised by the ratepayers - which therefore does not need to make a profit, which will in turn make the others go bankrupt, which in turn leaves ratepayers with a SUBSTANDARD facility with substandard service just like the one we have NOW

ONE OPTIONS AS BAD AS THE OTHER

Posted on 19-10-2011 18:38 | By Insider

Ockers have to all intents and purposes been running Hotpools for last 6years and ripped us to shreads in the process. So why would we go back for more.? The choice is we (TCC) lose the money ourselves or they lose it for us - some choice eh ?

HOT POOL ATTENDEES

Posted on 19-10-2011 20:53 | By ANNA KISSED

Poll taken today at the Hot Pools shows that: - Not one Crusie Ship occupant even looked at the Hot Pools for a moment, many preferred to wander around the Mount on a quest of "Spot the blob of oil" rather than risk entering the Hot Pools.

THREE DOWN TWO TO GO

Posted on 20-10-2011 16:53 | By DRONE

Director's I mean, when are the rest going to be banished off into the sunset with one way tickets.

@theInsider

Posted on 20-10-2011 19:56 | By The Tomahawk Kid

If this was NOT a council run facility, the ONLY people paying for it would be those who chose of their OWN FREE WILL to pay the admission price. People exchange THEIR OWN MONEY for things they believe are good value. If its not of value to them, they do not complete the transaction. As opposed to the current situation where ALL ratepayers have their money taken by force and threats whether they like it or not, to pay for a sub-standard facility. I dont care if its run by the man on the moon, so long as he provides a good service at the right price then I will exchange my money for it. At the moment the ratepayers get raped, and THEN have to pay a premium price for a substandard product. Where is the choice in THAT?

CEO HAS A NEW JOB

Posted on 21-10-2011 18:47 | By DRONE

It is somewhere else, a place unknown but will be announced soon.

BIG SAVING

Posted on 22-10-2011 12:08 | By WORMTONGUE

@ Drone, that will save $170,000 and a lot more resulting from bad decisions but of course who would want the job now until such time as the mess is sorted out.

OVER ZEALOUS CONTRACTOR

Posted on 22-10-2011 12:16 | By WORMTONGUE

So joining up the dots here, Mainzeal did the Baywave build at the start (leaked from the start), they were dragged in to do the Hot Pools 'repairs' and that leaks afterwards to, I guess that is what you get from a 'builder' trying to fix a leak in a pool. Same analogy applies to the Rena (it is leaking to) those in charge have no skill in the task that they are attempting to perform. The result is all the same.

USER PAYS, YEAH RIGHT

Posted on 24-10-2011 13:52 | By ANNA KISSED

@ TOMAHAWK KID, Some day the truth will sneek out of TCC about what is really happening at TCAL. When it does you will realise that the 'fair price' you are talking about for what would be a user pays basis so as no costs falls back on the ratepayers cleaned out pay packets. You will find that TCC pays about 70-80% of the day to day costs of TCAL's operations, some will be worse than others of course such as Mount Hot Pools would be about 60-65% the others mostly are lucky to get to 10% revenue to pay the costs to oeprate. I would think on your basis the Mount Hot Pools prices would need to double, then add some more for the long term maintenance that is also needed. Will you pay $12 or more per visit to go?

ROBIN HOOD

Posted on 24-10-2011 16:48 | By Crash test dummies

Bring him back, we need to turn the tide of the poor being robbed and all then given to the rich to get richer. Best place to start on that is clean the place out and get some fresh 'clean' blood in the place not the "best mates appointee department" so as they have warm confy seats.

HOOD ROBIN ALL

Posted on 25-10-2011 13:17 | By YOGI

More like it, so I agree that the rules have to change but of course this is a bit of window dressing of reality, sadly for us all more dastedly deed await discovery deeper within.

HOOD ROBIN ALL

Posted on 25-10-2011 13:17 | By YOGI

More like it, so I agree that the rules have to change but of course this is a bit of window dressing of reality, sadly for us all more dastedly deed await discovery deeper within.

ROBIN ALL

Posted on 25-10-2011 17:18 | By WORMTONGUE

@ Yogi, looks like your blog is up twice, that is about right to, twice as bad as we all throught it would be.

HOODS ROBIN YA

Posted on 25-10-2011 23:09 | By SCOTT NUFFIN4U

That is a better heading and a bit nearer the truth of it. Facts are that the ones "ROBIN" us all are those making all the bad decisions that are obviously wrong, to many to list ...

no money

Posted on 26-10-2011 14:32 | By festino lente

you do not make money if to run 3 full time and 2 part time pools you need a support crew on 45k-80k: A finance manager,an HR manager 2 accounts payable people, a admin person, . That alone is yearly bill of $250-300k. All to duplicate what the departments at the council (who own tcal) are already doing. There is no need to search for waste, it is right there for all to see.

LOSSES ONLY OPTION

Posted on 28-10-2011 12:56 | By TERMITE

@ Festino Lente, quite rightly so, the only option is losses and more losses, especially that there are over 150 staff employed for these facilities and it is really hard to see where they all are? Most likely a bit more of the TCC book keeping magic.

WOW

Posted on 01-11-2011 22:45 | By ANNA KISSED

150 Staff, I don't believe that could be possible, maybe a couple a dozen if well run, maybe 50-60 when completely inefficient and out of control when a publically run outfit designed singularly for the purpose of loosing money.