Tauranga toll-free bridge slammed

Winston Peter's last political gift to the people of Tauranga, a toll-free second harbour bridge, was slammed by Tauranga city councillor Larry Baldock this week as something that has cost the city millions in on-going transport funding.

If the government hadn't paid for the harbour bridge and the Chapel Street overpass the city council would have been able to use the bridge tolls to carry on funding the transport network, says Larry.


'It hit me again just how much Winston stuffed up our plans really by getting everybody that bridge,” says Larry.

'Everyone thought it was a great deal but we are now looking at the northern (arterial) and these others are a long way out because we gave up one of the best funding mechanisms for our whole network that we could ever have.

'Auckland is where it is now because its politicians haven't got the courage to put a toll back on the bridge, which would fund everything in Auckland. And we were in the position where we could have had tolls on the new bridge, on both sides of the new bridge. We would have our northern, eastern, everything inter-linked.

'We have got to get back to Wellington with the message, that we can't stop spending money here or we will end up like Auckland very quickly.”

Larry's comments were made in discussing the draft Tauranga Transport Strategy 2012-2042. The report is ready for the start of the New Zealand Transport Agency support process. A final version of the strategy is expected to be presented to the Strategy and Policy Committee for adoption in September 2013.

The report is basically an update for the NZTA of the Tauranga Urban Network Study , which now gets agreement from the government road agency as the way road and transport issues will be dealt with in Tauranga over the next 30 years.

The advantage Tauranga has is a robust framework where transport, land use, and growth predictions are all linked via SmartGrowth, says transportation planner Philip King.

The transport model doesn't go as far into the future as the SmartGrowth predictions. The traffic predictions go to about 2031-2036, while SmartGrowth is looking out to 2040-2060, with growth in the Bay of Plenty continuing. He's hoping they will be able to align the transport growth with SmartGrowth after the current SmartGrowth review.

Councillors noticed there is a danger parts of the Tauranga transport network will become congested in the next three years unless money is spent.

'From my experience if you have the strategy in place and the land use, and you are prepared to help NZTA - successive governments both Labour and National and New Zealand first have invested heavily,” says Mayor Stuart Crosby. 'Get them in the tent and working with us, then the resources will keep coming.”

52 comments

tax/toll

Posted on 25-04-2013 10:41 | By tl;dr

keep the peasants poor so we dont have the resource to fight back.... except with baseball bats.


Greedy

Posted on 25-04-2013 10:50 | By firemansam

This is TDC Councillors thinking about the pockets and not the public to them its all about money.


could

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:00 | By Capt_Kaveman

try in fix the traffic lights stop cutting other routes and slowing everything down, tolls are not the answer look at the dumb route k or what ever you call a lemon,+ for the interchanges at Chapel and dive cres having traffic lights there is a disaster why the over passed not built so large roundabouts could be put in since lights at chapel are nothing short of a joke


Just thinking

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:10 | By Kaimai

I can remember what Winstone did for Tauranga but I can't remember what Baldock did for Tauranga - poor memory on my part or has Baldock done nothing.


Loopy Larry?

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:18 | By PLONKER

Council's lack of ability with money is obvious and Route K results are there to be seen, it was a great decision of citizens as the rip off and wastage of tolls ended. The achievements of Council are reflected in the ROute K massive losses, the less that Council have fingers in it the better. Problem is that they are yet to realise that and it could be a while before they do ... October 2013 I think


Council Debt

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:18 | By Jimmy

Isn't the fact that council did not have to pay a cent for the bridge a MUCH better option than an EXTRA 250 million plus debt having to be served by residents. Toll bridges on TOP of rate increases? I'll use the toll road maybe once a month, however i dare say if the bridge was tolled i'd much prefer to take the scenic route around


All about the money?

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:32 | By TERMITE

Larry and co just want their gubby little hands on the money and that will never be a good thing for ratepayers ever, Government rightly has chopped back what they do and this is just the massanations of teeth grinding by a toddler who has had they toys thrown out of the cot. About time it happened, the less this lot do, think about and spend the better!


NO!!! to tolls on bridge.

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:43 | By sambro

Tolls coming off the bridge was the best gift the people of Tauranga have ever had. Renewing bridge tolls will slow the traffic flow (again) and make us despise the TCC even more. Toll the arterial routes. DON'T BE AN INDIAN GIVER !


DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!!

Posted on 25-04-2013 11:55 | By Fun in the Sun

Larry's logic explains why TDC is in financial strife. I was a member of TAG (Tolls Action Group)that pressured for the removal of the illegal harbour bridge toll. Council want to toll bridge users for the construction of other roads that bridge users were not using, much the same as Larry appears to promoting. If you want a toll road put the toll on the road in question as TAG successively persuaded Central Government to enforce with Route K. If the traffic volumes are not sufficient to cover the costs then the road is not viable and should not be built, as route K should not have been built at the time construction had started. Larry its called living within your means


TCC cashcow

Posted on 25-04-2013 12:21 | By Captain Sensible

TCC had charged bridge users 7 X the cost of the original bridge in tolls and wanted to use it as a cash cow forever. What happened to the extra 6 X cost of the original bridge that TCC fleeced from us?? Winston gave us a gift and denied TCC their cash cow.


He would know...

Posted on 25-04-2013 12:56 | By penguin

Larry Baldock would know all about money, wouldn't he.....?


Rastus

Posted on 25-04-2013 13:25 | By rastus

In my lifetime there has only been one statesman politician and that is Winston Peters 'and' I hope we will see much more of his statesman common sense prevail - Those who are not so bright are obvious by the infantile, ramblings they spew out - no wonder they will never go down in the most humble history book as anything more than a waste of space.


Council Elections

Posted on 25-04-2013 13:46 | By Accountable

This is one of the reason nobody should vote for loose Larry as he is the best councillor in the TCC at spending other peoples money. Make him get a real job where he has to really justify his existence.


sour

Posted on 25-04-2013 13:50 | By sojourner

Finger pointing always goes sour with me. What is the point, one wonders, to NOW start blaming Mr.Peters for a problem he had nothing to do with in the beginning? All of Tauranga heaved a sigh of relief when the tolls were finally removed from the Harbor Bridge, and thank you to Mr.Peters and all those who worked to make it happen.Todays' woes are not going to be fixed by now creating blame for them on someone who did a power of good for this country.


Port profits?

Posted on 25-04-2013 14:02 | By Kiwimon

How about the Port of Tga payed their share to the roading costs? They're a huge part of the increased traffic problems around here with the escalating numbers of trucks on the roads and it's not going to help with bigger and more container ships coming in, is it? But oh no, we can't let the poor share holders cut any profits for the good of our community now, can we!?


TCC Clownish Juggler

Posted on 25-04-2013 14:22 | By Jitter

Larry Baldock can't have it both ways. This inane comment just illustrates the height of his intelligence, or lack of it. I ask the same question as Captain sensible. What happened to all that money from the tolls on the origional bridge ? That was paid for 7 times over. Larry Balderdash has to be given the push in October just in the same way as some of the other useless councillors.A number of them are only interested in wasting ratepayers money with no public consultation on projects in many cases. TCC should hold a binding referenda on all major projects. Each one would cost around $250,000 but this is far better than spending tens of millions of dollars on projects that ratepayers do not want or the city does not need.


@Kiwimon

Posted on 25-04-2013 14:28 | By donmac

Does not appreciate that both local councils share ownership of the Port. Tax the port and you tax the ratepayers. Tolls are not a good option for a city main route. Anyone remember how it used to be? Now we have a good system we didn't have to pay for. Why stuff it up by slowing it down with toll booths?


The Port of Tauranga

Posted on 25-04-2013 14:39 | By Colleen Spiro

I like the idea of POT contributing to the roading infrastructure.....They contributed to the board walk for their tourists, which Larry voted for. He also lobbied for Greerton Library for another 3 million plus to be spent. Money we have not got....Time for Larry to go...elections coming up.


QUESTION FOR LARRY

Posted on 25-04-2013 16:10 | By Colleen Spiro

Has SMART GROWTH been monitoring the number of people going into Welcome Bay, with only one way in and one way out for the past 30 years. Do they see the tunnel solving that? going into 2 lanes on Turret Road? Oh yes we all know the 2nd Bridge has been promised, but still only 2 lanes up 15th...


Election spending

Posted on 25-04-2013 16:53 | By SamB

The purpose of a toll booth on the road it is paying for, is that being at the toll booth is proof you are actually using the road you are paying for. It could be classed as fraud, in my opinion Larry is obviously ok with that, so let's start by putting a toll collection at the end of Larry's driveway, down side being it might not get as much use after October. I'm with the others on asking where the other 6x toll collection went. OIA request anyone?


Port of tauranga

Posted on 25-04-2013 17:09 | By PLONKER

Why would they pay for Route K or any roading? All the silly mates at TCC can not shell out rates money fast enough to allow POT to get the cheque book out, All the POT can do is throw a few Hundy at a boardwalk at Pilot Bay then TCC got involved and that is a complete mess to.


Marine Parade Toll Road next?

Posted on 25-04-2013 17:10 | By PLONKER

There are that many padestrian crossing there now may as well have a toll bridge to, that will stem the traffic flow for sure. Double it in the holidays so it is family friendly ...


Larry, Do us a Favour resign Now

Posted on 25-04-2013 17:16 | By tabatha

Larry with his nice council paid salary could afford to pay, I would almost suggest this is a Conservative Party plank from links with Colin Craig. Larry just came down the toll road was delayed at Plaza by someone who did not know about paying, a clown this morning rushed past us and did a U turn just before the Plaza as he had not read the signs, please get off your band wagon and leave it to the next council. Time for you to go.


time to lose the excess!

Posted on 25-04-2013 17:41 | By annon

We seriously need a major shake up for our council, bunch of grumbling old men. they are time wasting, money wasting IDIOTS!


Rave on Larry

Posted on 25-04-2013 17:43 | By philthrottle

What is fair about bridge users paying for the whole roading network ? Get a haircut and get a real job.


Oh dear Larry

Posted on 25-04-2013 22:50 | By PLONKER

Good example that shall live in infamy ... Larry Chaired the sub committee that considered the Jazz application from last year, even through the Jazz was no longer able to apply and get money from TCC Larry and the Mayor (not on the committee) enthusiastically shunted the application through for a grant of $56,000 and a loan of $90,000 to be paid back, but that was never going to happen), now it was well known that the Jazz was not going to make any money so all that was happening was that Council was subsiding them a lot more than before just like every other outfit that Council interferes with from the get go sooner or later, if Council touches it then it is bad ... ad getting worse every day.


To Quote Larry

Posted on 26-04-2013 07:58 | By Fun in the Sun

"There is no such thing as a free road. We pay for it all one way or another." Your right Larry everything in life must be paid for, its just a matter of who pays for it. However if you are using a road as an example Route K but the toll is being paid by others not using the road but using the harbour bridge: It would be fair to say the road users are getting it for free, and the bridge users would feel they are paying for the bridge twice. Now seeing how the bridge users have already paid for it twice lets make that 3 times. Now Larry please explain how user pays works again??? The truth is the harbour bridge is a bottle neck and you see its users as an easy target.


Loose Larry?

Posted on 26-04-2013 08:26 | By YOGI

Negotiated a spare $150m odd for roads with Labout? well I would say that did not exactly happen and that about sums up the whole Baldock picture for the last 2 1/2 years ...


Pie in the sky piffle

Posted on 26-04-2013 08:32 | By RORTSCAM

Mr Baldock in 2005(?)says he negotiated an extra $150m for the Labour Govt. to provide for and meet Tauranga's pressing roading needs by 2015.Well some deal, where is the so called roading where is the money and what has been achieved -absolutely nothing.Anyway the fact is Mr Baldock wasn't even reelected to Parliament in September 2005 was he so what use was that.


Get over yourself Larry

Posted on 26-04-2013 08:32 | By The Sage

You must be making money off Route K. Pull some money off the organisations that the Council funds that are a waste of space. Take the $225,000 that Murray Guy proposes to use for a tea house at Pyes Pa. Get someone in who knows how to run a private business and clean the place up.


When blowing your own trumpet

Posted on 26-04-2013 10:20 | By YadaYada

you must remember to blow not suck.


No Sympathy

Posted on 26-04-2013 10:26 | By The Big Tomatosaurus

Remember how TCC placed the Toll Booths on the Mount side of the bridge so that any mount people only wishing to use the marina, and not even cross the bridge, were still unfairly forced to pay the toll! TCC you have made a $450 million mess, and expects us mug rate payers to sympathise!!!


@ Larry

Posted on 26-04-2013 10:53 | By TERMITE

Perhaps you should can the Greerton Library scheme and use the $1.8m contributions for roading then? As Sage says just buy a tea pot for the Cemetorium neverminfd the spend up on full catering up there and save $224,980, go to the Jazz COmmittee and get back the $146,000 from last year ... get the picture Larry. You spend it means nothing for there.


.

Posted on 26-04-2013 11:12 | By TERMITE

Did a deal with the Labour Party? In what capacity, on whoes behalf? this all sounds like the typical pedgree of a Polly type that the general public has learnt of and loath. I guess ratepayers should not be surprised buit you know as they say ... when you think it is as bad as it can get ... it gets worse! Worser ...


Tauranga has ...

Posted on 26-04-2013 13:33 | By WOMBLE

"is a robust framework where transport, land use, and growth predictions are all linked via SmartGrowth" Oh my god these WOMBLES think that SmartGrowth is wonderful when all the internal reports at TCC say it is a train wreck that has already happened.


put a toll on cycle lanes

Posted on 26-04-2013 15:19 | By the kurgan

bloody waste of valuable road space and they always seem to be void of cyclists. another bright idea from TDC spending public money on minority groups.


A what about the Eastern By-pass?

Posted on 27-04-2013 12:09 | By debarthowz

Much is being said about the bridge toll history but if we look ahead we stand to be fleeced further as the esatern by-pass would have been paid for in full by Govt agencies had we waited for it to reach top priority. By building it early we have saved Govt the expense and burdened ourselves. I believe we should have not started that road until we had an agreement with Govt for the purchase of the road by 2020 (the time they would possibly have finished it). Instead even our children will be burdened with paying for it for decades.


Your own fault

Posted on 27-04-2013 12:40 | By Stricker

Complain all you like people. YOU voted these muppets into council, now suffer the consequences of their stupid ideals purely for the betterment of themselves and not the city. Think twice next time you vote, if you had done so in the 1st place, we could have avoided all these problems with the TCC.


debarthowz

Posted on 28-04-2013 11:49 | By PLONKER

Agreed, waiting a few years and it would have been done anyway no toll to pay, for being "pushy" the tolls will now be there for some 40-50 years 'fleecing' all in the BOP area.


@Stricker

Posted on 28-04-2013 13:01 | By morepork

While there is no doubt that the current crop is pretty dire, there is no guarantee that a different crop would be any better, so your comment is not really fair. It seems that whenever people get power they lose the ability to reason with common sense. Larry Baldock is SO far off the beam here you have to wonder how he crosses the road without a nurse.


Tauranga toll-free bridge

Posted on 28-04-2013 15:46 | By algail

Taking the toll off the bridge was the one of, if not the biggest mistake the TCC ever made. One wonders how long it will be before they top that. Oh wait a minute they did Route K. What did they do with Route k take the toll off? No they put it up. If a toll is put in place it should never be removed no matter what and never put it up. Increased road use will always increase income from tolls. If the bridge toll had not been removed the less than brilliant TCC members we have could have been wasting that money instead of our rates. One wonders how the new bridge was built without a toll with costs being so much higher now than they were when the first bridge was built. I wonder has anyone calculated the money that could have been collected had the toll been left on the bridge Alastair Bethlehem


Larry's comments explain everything

Posted on 28-04-2013 16:38 | By TERMITE

Why TCC has so much trouble with its debt, how does Larry propose to have borrowed $250m odd and then use tolls to pay that off and also have mega millions left over for roading purposes all over the BOP region? larry has yet to explain where 4/5ths of the tolls collected went anyway from the last habour bridge toll setup. Why would anyone allow you to dive into ratepayers cheque when there is no explanation of the last carry on?


TCC and Route K

Posted on 29-04-2013 15:39 | By YOGI BEAR

TCC pans were that Route K would replace the tolls revenue ex the bridge and they bulldozed the process to get it up and running as soon as possible. NZTA peer reviewed TCC's plans on Route K and they condemned them as "A train crash happening at full speed ..." (NZTA were right). Of course TCC knew much better ... and went ahead and did it anyway. As a result TCC is now $70-$75m out of pocket and counting with the debts accumulating at $2.5-3.0m a year.


firemansamIt IS all about money - other peoples money

Posted on 29-04-2013 18:55 | By The Tomahawk Kid

It IS all about money! OTHER PEOPLES MONEY! . . . and it is taken by force, and spent by immoral do-gooders on things THEY think are important, and for your own good. That is why you lot are all here MOANING. Try voting for a candidate that will advocate council only involved in ESSENTIAL services. Remove council from all other activities they have no right interfering in. THEN reduce your rates by about 50%, leaving YOU with money in your pockets to spend on things YOU think are important, instead of giving your permission to immoral, unprincipled do-gooders to spend it on their pet projects. No doubt you will ignore this advice and continue to vote for the bureaucrats that offer you the biggest share or say in what to do with the loot they steal, and then continue to moan that its not spent on things YOU want.


Tomahawk Kid

Posted on 30-04-2013 11:32 | By YOGI BEAR

Give me a candidate, just one that is worthy of a vote! That has a clue, capable, and able to consider and do what is required not whimp out and joion the forces of wannabee "yes" amn crew that is there now.


Stuffwittery at its Supreme Pinnacle

Posted on 30-04-2013 19:53 | By CONDOR

Cr Baldocks assertions are so divorced from reality it is really worrying that people like him are running Taurangas affairs and promoting stratagems that have only one destination -the poor house.


And to think they walk among us

Posted on 01-05-2013 07:33 | By ROCCO

With this sort of cockeyed fiscal logic no wonder TCC are in the financial poo to the tune of $500m going on $700m.by 2015.Get the Minister of Local Govt. to appoint a Commissioner quick.


Rocco

Posted on 01-05-2013 10:00 | By YOGI BEAR

It will be quick, fast and they will feel the pain, but then ratepayers will feel the pain short after with some big hits in the pocket, then the sleep hallow of Taurnaga will awaken and realise what they have missed.


Loose lips Larry?

Posted on 01-05-2013 22:41 | By MISS ADVENTURE

I see below that a reference has been made to Loopy as well, I am not sure what the go is here but looks to have been a really bad day "in the office" when this was said, totally crazed stuff without any real idea why it was said or however it would happen.


Condor

Posted on 02-05-2013 17:20 | By YOGI BEAR

Cr Baldock was trying to be an MP not so long ago, so that exempts him from saying anythign sensible, it also allows him to state a sentence with a straight face that is a complete contradiction from that said one minute before.


Blame

Posted on 04-05-2013 21:58 | By doc.66

QUICK TO BLAME WINSTON AYE LARRY LOOK AT YOUR SELF


Scare me

Posted on 06-05-2013 10:31 | By YOGI BEAR

The thought of Larry with his hands on the cheque book for tolls of the Harbour bridge, already seen the results from the Jazz handouts of $146,000 last year, never mind the rules on that one either.


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