Plea for waterfront whare waka

Tauranga Maori representatives are arguing spending $350,000 on a new Maori canoe shelter on Tauranga's waterfront will result in more long-term economic benefits for the community.

Puhirake Ihaka and Peri Kohu want council to continue work on a new Maori canoe shelter.

Council is proposing deferring the project to save money, but in submissions to the annual plan hearings Puhirake Ihaka and Peri Kohu say the project should be kept in the budget because of the wider economic benefits it will bring.

Much of the planning on the project to create a whare waka for two canoes, larger than the existing whare waka on The Strand, has been undertaken in the last six to nine months, says Puhirake.

'It's to a stage where some of the work is ready to commence,” says Puhirake.

Peri is speaking for Ngai Tamarawaho and Puhirake is making submissions on behalf of the Tauranga Moana Tangata Whenua Collective representing 13 hapu and three iwi, and the Otamataha Trust.

Jointly they hope undertaking carving for the double canoe house on site will be a visitor attraction, bringing spectators in to the site to watch progress, and spend more time in the area.

'We have got a whare waka behind the trees at the end of The Strand, I don't believe people know it's there,” says Puhirake.

'For the visitors that come to the city it doesn't mean much because they don't see it.

The name Tauranga itself comes from the connection with the waka, says Puhirake.

'All the waka that traditionally used to come into this harbour would anchor up, stay for a while and they knew they were pretty safe. It's that connection and where do we showcase that?”

The plan is to have more than one waka on display under a shelter that will take two side-by-side along the waterfront. It will be an attraction for cruise ship visitors and will give them a reason not to travel to Rotorua, says Puhirake.

Local iwi have been discussing the project, making plans and preparing designs for the carvings that will decorate the whare waka.

Puhirake says if the projected halted now momentum will be lost and they will have to begin again in a year on what is expected to be a one or two year project.

'If we are going to do it eventually, why wait.”

Last week's 150th commemoration at Pukehinahina means that hill will never be the same, says Peri.

'It will become a must see for visitors to Tauranga.”

'We have worked with council for more than 20 years on different projects along the waterfront some of which did not come to pass,” says Peri.

'I do not want this to be another one of those.”

72 comments

Good Idea

Posted on 07-05-2014 07:13 | By Mohio

Ae tautoko te kaupapa....I agree it would be a tourist attraction for the moana, so why don't the Iwi/Hapu use funds from their Treaty Settlements to advance this project?? and also fund the completion of the Pukehinahina carvings?? Lets work as 1....


$$$$

Posted on 07-05-2014 09:48 | By penguin

Let's be real here. There are many demands on expenditure which are more pressing than a waka shelter. Get support from some of the millions paid out in treaty settlements. As for the prospect of a canoe 'encouraging” cruise ship visitors not to go to Rotorua - hardly likely!


An attraction - really?

Posted on 07-05-2014 10:13 | By Draginz

I think the business plan for this proposal is seriously flawed. If Iwi think that the construction of a boat shed on the Strand (blocking views to the harbour), will be more of a drawcard to cruise ship visitors than travelling to Rotorua, they are seriously deluded. Has anyone bothered to consult Tauranga ratepayers and Strand business owners to ask what they think of this waste of money?


the old economic benefit argument wears thin

Posted on 07-05-2014 10:37 | By Annalist

Maybe I'm a bit cynical but haven't we heard the economic benefit argument about lots of things we can't afford. The surf reef was going to bring big money into the area, wasn't it? The art gallery was going to have top people wanting to come and live and work in Tauranga, wasn't it? Sorry but I don't think the ratepayers are in a position to afford this or any of the other dreams and wants that are floating about. Let's get serious about repaying debt before it sinks us.


The existing shed

Posted on 07-05-2014 10:47 | By YOGI BEAR

Is more than adequate, in fact if anything move it all down to the Historic Village, rent a shed to IWI to store and display it in down there.


Makes you wonder why!!!

Posted on 07-05-2014 11:58 | By Sambo Returns

when you look at the state of what is there now, why would more money be put into something that cannot be looked after now, and if Peri thinks one dilapidated whaka is going to stop tourists going to Rotorua, he has is head firmly entrenched in the kumera pit!!


rip off

Posted on 07-05-2014 12:53 | By dumbkof2

Can someone please explain to me how it can cost $650000 to build a simple shelter to house a canoe. The iwi have enough money to build a multi million mansion for this. Why cant they pay for it themselves.


Why ?

Posted on 07-05-2014 12:56 | By Jitter

I agree with TCCs decision to defer this project. In fact I feel strongly that TCC ratepayers should not be paying for this at all. This is one project that should be cut out of the annual plan completely. I cannot see where the building of this canoe shelter will result in long term economic benefits to the community. If the 13 hapu and 3 iwi are so keen to put up this building then they should pay for it. TCC and ratepayers cannot afford this "nice to have" project when they are already over $400 million in debt. I don't believe it will be a "must see' for visitors to Tauranga. There is a similar building on the Wellington waterfront and it is never open!


Good on them

Posted on 07-05-2014 12:56 | By nerak

trying, and good luck in fundraising for this dream, because fundraising is what is needed. Ratepayers are already bleeding out. Please, council, stick to your proposal.


Good Question Councillor Mitchell

Posted on 07-05-2014 12:58 | By carpedeum

I attended the TCC Submissions hearing yesterday to listen to another submitter so sat through this presentation.As a ratepayer I think it has been a good decision by the Council to defer non essential projects till the debt they are saddled with is lessened. I did also like the comments ( which your article does not mention) of Councillor Clayton Mitchell about the dimensions of this cover for two canoes and if the Hapu/Iwi/Trust would contribute to the costs .


they

Posted on 07-05-2014 13:18 | By Capt_Kaveman

want it they pay for it TCC is not a money pit


Overit

Posted on 07-05-2014 13:23 | By overit

Sorry folks I do not see this as a 'must have' right now. Its not far by foot for visitors to view. Rotorua has geothermal sites to see-we dont!


Waka

Posted on 07-05-2014 13:26 | By YOGI BEAR

Better housed indoor I would guess, there is plenty of room at the Historic Village and that logically would be a very sensible place to put it. In addition TCC would be able to get some rent from IWI as well, that will help TCC coffers.


Tourists

Posted on 07-05-2014 13:50 | By sojourner

You'd be surprised what tourists want to see, and anything Maori is high on the list. If Tauranga can get it together to promote and produce whatever Maori-whatever it will bring and keep tourists here. From the waterfront to the pubs and restaurants to the shops back to the boat. And no, I am not Maori, but I do know the European and American mindset.


for overit...

Posted on 07-05-2014 15:43 | By penguin

...we do actually have a type of geothermal site in Tauranga with lots of hot air and steam. It's called the Council!


Change of Attitude Needed.

Posted on 07-05-2014 19:17 | By Mary Faith

Maori need to change their attitude from - 'what is theirs is ours and what is ours is ours'. They want to spend ratepayers money to promote a project of theirs? - NO! Let them spend their own money - fair is fair!! Get your hands out of the council trough Iwi!


Mary F

Posted on 08-05-2014 16:01 | By YOGI BEAR

Agree completely, the frame of mind seems to be all about what can I get for free rather than how do I help myself without bludging.


One thing is for sure,

Posted on 08-05-2014 20:06 | By robin bell

Maori can be under no illusion,that you miserable lot,are anti everything they propose.Maori culture is a major attraction for foreign visitors,indisputable.Perhaps you people can inform the world,just what Tga.has to offer that has similar novelty.WE ARE WAITING. Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 09-05-2014 15:15 | By Jitter

If you are so clever why don't you inform the world what Tauranga has to offer. In many cases of overseas visitors, by the time they reach Tauranga they have had their fill of "Maori" culture. If they have seen one lot they have seen it all because wherever they go it is basically all the same. I am definitely not against the construction of the canoe shelter as long as "Maori" pay for it out of their own funds and don't expect ratepayers to cough up for it. Visitors do not come to NZ purely to view "Maori" culture. They come to visit and see the beauty of the country overall. "Maori" culture is only a very small part of the whole experience and unfortunately by the time they get to Tauranga they have seen enough.


Jitter,

Posted on 10-05-2014 14:33 | By robin bell

So you have nothing to offer,no surprise there. Some years ago I was involved with a group who wanted to establish an Orchid conservatory in Tga. My "job" was to contact tour bus operators.All had the same response,Tga has nothing "more" to offer,we prefer to travel direct to Rotorua.Nothing has changed and nothing will,so long as your attitude prevails.Your wrong about what local Maori culture has to offer,fact is your idea of 'attraction' seems to revolve around,er! er! er! sorry I can't think of anything.You see Jitts,I'm not so clever afterall,but thanks for the compliment.Robin Bell.


Robin Bell

Posted on 11-05-2014 08:59 | By Jitter

Shame on you not being able to name any areas of interest to visitors to Tauranga. How about The Mount and a walk around or up, the beaches, McLaren Falls Park, The Mission, The Art Gallery (perhaps) , the Historic Village (if it was done up and made a real attraction), Gate Pa etc. We do have a lot to offer in Tga but unfortunately the tour bus operators get a big rake off by taking tourists to Rotorua. We have hosted a good number of overseas visitors here and they love the whole area. They all think we have a beautiful country especially the South Island. Local "Maori" culture has a lot to offer. However visitors find that it is much the same wherever they go in NZ. Which is why by the time they get here they have had enough.


miserable lot???????

Posted on 12-05-2014 11:30 | By YOGI BEAR

Robin, I cant see that, there has been $100's of billions of charity dished out via the Waitangi Tribunal and yet most Maori have not seen a penny. Your issue here is that you have not yet realized where the loot is and who has got it. When you do ... watch this space! PS can you remind us all about where you were born?


Miserable bear.

Posted on 12-05-2014 13:22 | By robin bell

no surprise you can't see anything,blinded by prejudice as you are.Identify and quantify the "$100 of billions you claim has been paid out.You can't,you won't.Just add it to your "lonnnnnnng" list of inventions.Compensation for all that land you stole, is not charity.In fact old bear Maori have yet again been short-changed,$100 of billions might cover it,but unlike you, Maori are quite reasonable people. Robin Bell.


Happy Bear

Posted on 13-05-2014 08:10 | By YOGI BEAR

Every day, because Robin responds, takes the bait and still does not know.


Classic..

Posted on 13-05-2014 14:18 | By awaroa

White values must be enabled to advance - right? No need to quantify the benefits and to who any benefit reaches. Maori values must be pushed to the side to make way. After all it's only the values of a white majority that have benefits for. After all, how could Maori values possibly benefit others. Right Mary et al. Only your people matter. Only your people pay rates. Only your people positively contribute to the city. Only your views and values matter. Council have reneged on an agreement made some 4 years ago. That's how they operate. Simple really.


Awaroa

Posted on 14-05-2014 10:00 | By YOGI BEAR

Not like that, I think you will find a simple theme here, "One rule for all" and that is the barrow that is not happening right now.


Incorrect Quote

Posted on 14-05-2014 17:20 | By Jitter

The quote Mary Faith is referring to is pertaining to the Blue Laws of the Pacifica people which states "What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own". This is one of the points I remember from studying the Pacifica people during geography at secondary school. I have no other comment to add.


Blue law,

Posted on 15-05-2014 08:41 | By robin bell

was and still is aPuritanical,religious law and dictate.Clearly the term "whats mine is mine,and whats yours is mine" refers to the power of the church.In the Cook Islands,for instance it was first enacted by the London Missionary Society 1827.Jitter, you know full well that was not what M.f.was refering to.In your efforts to dis credit,you are getting quite stupid. Robin Bell.


Jitter re 'rake off'

Posted on 15-05-2014 19:30 | By Murray.Guy

The tour bus operators get a big rake off by taking tourists to Rotorua...' Not so. The coaches loaded with passengers heading for Rotorua are 90% on contract to the 'money making' on-shore excursion company and cruise ship owners. Certainly seriously over-inflated prices to the tourist, but no rich pickings for the locals. The tours are sold on the ship long before it reaches it's port. The canoe shelter does need relocating, perhaps to the strand, but for this Council that would likely cost $350,000!!! At present there is no parking opportunity for the tour buses for a brief photo opportunity and commentary, and with a bit of volunteer help it could be relocated at NO cost to Dive Crescent!


Puritanical,religious law

Posted on 15-05-2014 21:05 | By crazyhorse

Wheooo, getting flash now Bell. The apologist ideology or treatyist ideology one in the same for the"treaty troughers" saying go's What's your's is mine and what's mine is my own, but i'm not going to give any to the people that really need it!!!.


Puhirake Ihaka and Peri Kohu

Posted on 15-05-2014 21:09 | By crazyhorse

Peri is speaking for Ngai Tamarawaho and Puhirake is making submissions on behalf of the Tauranga Moana Tangata Whenua Collective representing 13 hapu and three iwi, and the Otamataha Trust. EVER THOUGHT OF PAYING FOR IT YOUR SELVES.


WHAT CRUISE SHIP WAKA NOW

Posted on 15-05-2014 21:36 | By crazyhorse

'All the waka that traditionally used to come into this harbour would anchor up, stay for a while and they knew they were pretty safe. It's that connection and where do we showcase that?”


Rake off

Posted on 15-05-2014 23:49 | By YOGI BEAR

yes Murray you are right the locals as such get not "rake off" but Tourism BOP does they clip the ticket for every bus/person that enters the PoT area before they can get near a cruise ship.


Murray

Posted on 16-05-2014 14:13 | By YOGI BEAR

I agree, for example the shops pay the driver a cut for what the passengers spend. There are incentives to go there for the driver obviously ...


1

Posted on 16-05-2014 15:20 | By YOGI BEAR

Oh come on Murray, it is not like that. Surely it is good business to collect a percentage of everything that moves simply because one has a monopoly on the whole thing? That is looked at as being good business practice.


Robin Bell

Posted on 16-05-2014 20:33 | By Jitter

Sorry, the information on the Blue Laws was confirmed by a group of scholarship Samoan secondary students who attended the college I attended on the West Coast of the South Island in the late 1950s. I recently saw a whare for waka on the seafront at Whakatane. I bet that did not cost $350,000. What is wrong with doing the existing shelter up and tidying the area around it. I really had no idea what Mary F was trying to say but assumed she was referring to the Blue Laws. The laws I refer to were in force long before the Church Misionary Society hit the islands. How do I know, because I had a lot to do with the Society many years ago when the ship Southern Cross was moving around the island nations. So be careful who you are calling stupid, stupid.


Wheoo,Treaty troughing

Posted on 16-05-2014 20:39 | By robin bell

At last Crazy-hoss. YOU have to agree,the world is like the chicken and egg,you know crazy steed,which came first? Treaty Troughing started the moment the thing was signed. Land sharking,Crown Theft,you name it. Troughing of the worst kind,taking advantage of uneducated,indiginous people,bullying of the worst kind.You and your cobbers,won't face facts,but sadly for you, your campaign is in tatters. Robin Bell.


Well,well, Jitter,

Posted on 17-05-2014 09:13 | By robin bell

You know full well that your "assumption" was intended to mislead,its what you do. I refer you back to your comment "incorrect quote" first line. That is what was stupid Jitter, Categorical but wrong. Regardless of a what a couple of secondary students might say,I repeat Blue Law has no place in this debate. Robin Bell.


Blue Laws

Posted on 17-05-2014 19:44 | By Jitter

Well Robin Bell you have your view/opinion and I have mine. It is obvious you have to be right all the time whether you are or not. You are very clever to know what my assumption did and did not mean. I do not mislead anymore than you do with your, in many cases, incorrect and misleading statements. It is pretty clear that it is ok for you to make misleading and incorrect statements but anything anyone else says that does not concur with yours is incorrect. And as far as I am concerned the Blue Laws do apply here.


in just a small way

Posted on 17-05-2014 20:40 | By Te Ponui

it would benefit the local tourism industry. Any attraction no matter how small contributes to the bigger picture. So why not - other than for purely envious and racist reasons? It would still be free for all to see and appreciate, not hidden away for paid viewing only, which would further drive tourists away. Local Maori have shared this Taonga in good faith for a long time and it deserves continued council support.


Te Ponui

Posted on 18-05-2014 15:09 | By YOGI BEAR

It adds not value now to tourism as no tourist bus comes via Tauranga to Rotorua. It adds no value to the waterfront and just occupies a corner for no apparent reason. Best option is put it somewhere where a few visitors go sometimes, the Historic Village ok.


Te Ponui

Posted on 19-05-2014 09:22 | By YOGI BEAR

The track record here is clear, you see no one there at anytime. That statement is not backed up by any facts, numbers and in fact reality is the opposite. I am around that area often and have never seen anyone looking through the netting at the canoe there.


Carvers working is an economic attraction

Posted on 19-05-2014 11:16 | By Peter Dey

Those who keep on that Maori should pay for this seem to be ignoring the fact that Maori carvers working on a waka would definitely be a tourist attraction and help bring more tourists into the waterfront area, to spend their tourist dollars there for the benefit of more than just Maori


do nothing.

Posted on 19-05-2014 17:56 | By Te Ponui

and reap no rewards. Don't complain about tourists going to Rotorua or elsewhere.


Peter D

Posted on 19-05-2014 20:22 | By YOGI BEAR

perhaps that is so, best to put it at the Historic Village where the Council will get a bit of rent out of the Waka builders and in turn from all of those tourists you are talking about. .


Te Ponui

Posted on 21-05-2014 06:38 | By YOGI BEAR

You have the wrong end of the stick. I don't like it that tourist go to Rotorua in mass and not Tauranga. The issue here is about Maori wanting now to set up a tourist/waka/carving business and they want Council ratepayers to pay for everything. If you think it is viable and a good thing to do then put your money where your mouth is and don't expect to use other money that you have no right at all to seek for such a thing


Always willing Jitter,

Posted on 21-05-2014 12:28 | By robin bell

to learn that is.(Unlike some) Please be good enough to point out exactly where Blue Law, has any relevence to local tourism. Feel very free to point out any incorrect or misleading statements I have made,and I will gladly rectify them. No smart-ass diversions allowed. Robin Bell.


Double standards

Posted on 21-05-2014 18:18 | By Te Ponui

Cargo sheds revamped for private exhibitioners to make a profit.


mr bear,

Posted on 21-05-2014 18:23 | By robin bell

by your own admission you "don't like" tourists heading out to Rotorua.Yet you grizzle at any initiative to help reverse the situation. You get what you deserve. Robin Bell.


Te Panui

Posted on 21-05-2014 22:39 | By YOGI BEAR

You are a bit behind the game on the Cargo Sheds, they actually pay rent, do you?


Always willing robbin

Posted on 21-05-2014 22:40 | By YOGI BEAR

It would actually be easier to point out what you got right. I will list it here and now .........o


Robin Bell

Posted on 22-05-2014 16:20 | By Jitter

Apologies for delay in replying but my PC packed a sad. "Blue Laws" do not have any relevance to local tourism but they are relevant to the "Maori" people who are members of the Pacifica people. I don't have space to detail your incorrect or misleading statements. Suffice to say that it is clear you are basing these on the rewritten history of NZ which is being done specifically to suit the 14.9% of NZers which gives a very biased view of NZ history. I am not saying that the history as originally written is 100% correct. However when cannibalism, savagery etc on their own people is now being denied as ever having occurred I am not impressed when there is so much in the way of recorded accounts to support it.


Your reverse psychology

Posted on 22-05-2014 17:43 | By robin bell

yogi "un"bear "able" is absolutely hilarious,coupled with your world famous one liners.New Zealand is desperate for good comedians,you should turn professional,you could become a tourist attraction in your own right."Watch out Rotorua" Meanwhile I'm sure Jitter can do without you.Unless of course his irrational fear is playing up again. Robin Bell.


Cargo Sheds

Posted on 22-05-2014 22:40 | By YOGI BEAR

I am very pleased you raised that, the Cargo shed occupants pay rent to be there. So can you tell me how much rent IWI pay for the site? Who pays the repairs on the building? Did I miss something here?


Yeah Jitter

Posted on 22-05-2014 22:43 | By YOGI BEAR

That is a problem that has prevailed for a couple a years. Bit of a babe in the woods, wandered over the seas to NZ not been here long but somehow has a complete grasp on NZ history from the get go. This guy should go home and enlist with Graham Norton. But I guess the step up even there is a bit much.


Comedian

Posted on 23-05-2014 18:04 | By YOGI BEAR

Yes, this place has the look of "comedy Central" and congrats to your only competitor is Peter. He does have an advantage even over you that he can last all day on this stuff and still keep a straight face.


One liners

Posted on 23-05-2014 18:38 | By YOGI BEAR

Sorry Robin, but considering I really do need to keep it simple, glad you understand it now.


Jitter has been misled

Posted on 23-05-2014 18:52 | By Peter Dey

Jitter claims that modern historians are writing a biased view of history specifically to suit Maori. He also claims that modern historians deny that Maori committed cannibalism and savagery against other Maori. He has no evidence to support these claims. It seems that he has been misled by anti-Maori writers and has not actually read the writing of modern historians himself.


Reply To Robin Bell

Posted on 23-05-2014 20:34 | By Jitter

It is not historians writing a biased view but activist separatist "Maori" who hope to make a quick buck out of settlements. Modern historians don't deny Maori committed cannibalism and savagery against other Maori but some "Maori" academics do. I have read many writings of modern historians and find a completely different story from that put forward by these academics. Yogi Bear is quite right, you are a recent migrant yourself but appear to be an expert on anything and everything relating to NZ. I only wish I was such an expert on anything and everything.


Yep,mr bear,

Posted on 24-05-2014 11:05 | By robin bell

we do understand,simple is the word.I can't think of a better one to describe your "inventions". Robin Bell.


Jitter, no one denies cannabalism

Posted on 24-05-2014 13:13 | By Peter Dey

Jitter claims that some Maori academics deny cannibalism. He should provide some names. It seems likely that Jitter is again being misled by anti-Maori writers, and that, in fact, nobody denies cannibalism by Maori. Academics debate how much cannibalism there was, and when and why it occurred, but not whether it occurred. Personal attacks against Robin Bell simply highlight the fact that anti-Maori writers have no credible answers to the points that Robin makes. Insults are not credible arguments.


jitter

Posted on 24-05-2014 14:22 | By crazyhorse

Treaty troughers do have there own historians and they have biased views. We have proved this in other "discussions" about this subject, E T Durie ex head of the Waitangi tribunal admitted historical research was sometimes altered, left out or in some instances the researchers were told to alter it to suit or not get payed. E T Durie wrote and published a paper on it called Values and "ethics" in maori research, not that there is any ethics in any of this but look it up and have a read it's a "dandy".


Crazyhorse, you should quote E.T.Durie correctly

Posted on 24-05-2014 20:30 | By Peter Dey

Crazyhorse has quoted E.T.Durie before and claims that E.T.Durie supported the falsifying of historical research. In fact crazyhorse is completely misrepresenting what E.T.Durie said. He said that procedures needed to be put in place to make sure that there was no falsifying of historical research. Once again Crazyhorse is unable to produce credible support for his claim.


Governments hide Document

Posted on 25-05-2014 10:58 | By crazyhorse

That gave New Zealand its legal and Political System. While the Treaty of Waitangi gave sovereignty of New Zealand to Great Britain and Maori the same rights as the people of England under the laws and dependency of New South Wales, New Zealand became a separate Crown Colony by Royal Charter and Letters Patent issued by Queen Victoria on the 16 November 1840. The Royal Charter was New Zealand's first Constitution and true Founding Document as it referred to, all the people of New Zealand, irrespective of race, colour or creed. When you have every professional historian, Te Papa and the Government not wanting to let Queen Victoria's Royal Charter/Letters Patent dated the 16 February 1840 be known or shown to the public, then you know there is something very wrong with our historians, governments and politicians.


researchers

Posted on 25-05-2014 18:04 | By YOGI BEAR

Hi Crazy Steed, agree mate, they have all to varying degrees altered, deleted and lost all manner of things that would in anyway detract from any claim made. Well said and agreed, the fact is this information is already known and most importantly admitted by Durie. That cant get any better for proof of the deliberate and planned deceit upon the NZ Taxpayers.


Courts vs Waitangi Tribunal

Posted on 26-05-2014 08:22 | By Jeromy Murkin

There is a major problem between Treaty claims going before the Courts and the same claim going before the taxpayer funded, apartheid Waitangi Tribunal. While the Courts use documented evidence, much of it held in our archives, the Tribunal relies heavily on unproven oral evidence supplied by the claimants and their "payed puppet” researcher. READ ABOUT IT. http://onenzfoundation.co.nz/wordpress/courts-vs-waitangi-tribunal/


Jeromy would delay justice by 50 years

Posted on 26-05-2014 14:42 | By Peter Dey

Jeromy points out that legal courts require a much higher standard of evidence than the Waitangi Tribunal. The problem he has to face is that if we operated Treaty claims like courts of law it would take 50 years or more to settle claims. Now that we have agreed that Maori suffered injustice it seems sensible to compensate the injustice in a reasonable time. Waiting another 50 years would not be a reasonable time. Jeromy can come up with no evidence that Maori are rorting the Waitangi Tribunal. Settlements return less than 10% of the value of land lost, so the taxpayer is not being robbed, so there is nothing for Jeromy to moan about.


delay justice

Posted on 27-05-2014 21:05 | By surfsup

could someone please explain how the $$$ figure is obtained for the settlements considering the land at the time was bare.


surfsup,

Posted on 28-05-2014 09:01 | By robin bell

if the gov'nts of the day had "done the right thing" We would not be in this position. Bare land values increase,as you well know. Justice delayed is justice denied. Justice now demands a "fair" current value be paid. Most people accept this. Robin Bell.


fair current value

Posted on 28-05-2014 21:05 | By surfsup

so the current value is based on all the improvements that have been made which has obviously increased the value of the bare land,so surely the compensation paid must be based on the current value of the land less the cost of the improvements.This also assumes that if the land had not be taken that the local tribe would have developed the land in the same way,which is making a lot of assumptions considering the amount of $$$$ that have been paid out.


Wrong again surfsup,

Posted on 29-05-2014 16:53 | By robin bell

the land "value" was established,when we decided that we needed it and Maori didn't need it.Land improved or not increases in value,supply/demand,inflation etc.Your assumptions are yours to make. I assume your mean spirit prevents you from making the necessary compromise. Remember surfsup,all of the "things"we gifted to Maori were gifted to us,in one way or another. Robin Bell.


wrong again??

Posted on 29-05-2014 22:21 | By surfsup

In all of history did Maori not sell land at all or did one tribe simply take land they wanted and if met with resistant fought for it.


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